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Google's Plan to Disrupt the College Degree Is Absolute Genius

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Re: Google's Plan to Disrupt the College Degree Is Absolute Genius

#31

Post by F_J_H »

twblalock wrote: post #17
blackflame7000 wrote: post #12

Half the classes they make you take at universities are worthless anyways. They're just there to keep you 4 years and get more money. A CS major doesn't need to learn about Greek Mythology.

Universities are not intended to be vocational schools or trade schools. That's why electives are required to graduate. That's why CS programs teach theory more than practice. It's always worth being a well-rounded person. The most successful software engineers I know are not the most technically proficient. They are the ones who understand how their customers and their employees and their managers view the world, an…

Agreed, but how much debt should one take on to learn these other skills? (Scott Galloway has been talking about this a lot lately - university degree cost inflation, which has skyrocketed without a commensurate increase in the quality of the product/service.)

There are other ways to pick up these skills, which are much more cost effective.

Re: Google's Plan to Disrupt the College Degree Is Absolute Genius

#32

Post by mplanchard »

cosmotic wrote: post #27
dx87 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're only worthless if you're treating college as a vocational school instead of a chance to broaden your horizons.

There are a lot of other ways to broaden one's horizons that don't cost tens of thousands of dollars. Or that do, but broaden the horizons in other ways.

This seems like more of a problem with our system of financing college than with the idea of college itself. Plenty of places manage to make college education more affordable than in the US.

Re: Google's Plan to Disrupt the College Degree Is Absolute Genius

#33

Post by adventured »

A comprehensive implementation of something akin to the German vocational training system is what the US needs.

It has been discussed across the political spectrum. The US needs to finally take concerted action toward this, with big investment behind it.

It was widely floated as an approach a few years ago by Benioff (and countless others) and the government made some basic motions in that direction:

https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/trump-wants-to-create-5-mi...

It's not nearly enough. The government has to go a lot bigger to make a dent in a job market the size of the US.

Re: Google's Plan to Disrupt the College Degree Is Absolute Genius

#34

Post by twblalock »

F_J_H wrote: post #31
twblalock wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities are not intended to be vocational schools or trade schools. That's why electives are required to graduate. That's why CS programs teach theory more than practice. It's always worth being a well-rounded person. The most successful software engineers I know are not the most technically proficient. They are the ones who understand how their customers and their employees and their managers view the world, an…

Agreed, but how much debt should one take on to learn these other skills? (Scott Galloway has been talking about this a lot lately - university degree cost inflation, which has skyrocketed without a commensurate increase in the quality of the product/service.) There are other ways to pick up these skills, which are much more cost effective.

That argument also applies to CS skills. There are lots of successful self-taught programmers out there.

Boot camps are the software equivalent of vocational/trade schools and they are looked down on for a reason.

Re: Google's Plan to Disrupt the College Degree Is Absolute Genius

#35

Post by F_J_H »

FpUser wrote: post #24
blackflame7000 wrote: post #12

Half the classes they make you take at universities are worthless anyways. They're just there to keep you 4 years and get more money. A CS major doesn't need to learn about Greek Mythology.

The goal of the university is to give you wide angle of view and most importantly teach you how to educate yourself. I've studied physics back in Soviet Union's university ages ago for free and consider it the best ever thing. I later moved to Canada do just fine and can never thank enough my tutors.

..for free. Would you have paid $60K - to $100K plus for the same? That is what students are facing now.

Very few would disagree with the intangible benefits of a university education. They question is, how much is it worth, and how much debt should you take on to obtain those benefits?

Re: Google's Plan to Disrupt the College Degree Is Absolute Genius

#36

Post by twblalock »

goatherders wrote: post #9

College in the USA is an economic plague on young people. This most certainly can't be as bad.

The average student loan debt for a new grad is about $33k, and the median is about $17k. $33k is a little bit less than the average price of a new car sold in the United States.

It sucks to owe money after college, but it is by no means a plague. It's a burden that many adults take on willingly each year just for a new car -- surely 4 years of education is worth as much money as a new Toyota Camry with leather seats.

On top of that, there are a lot of studies that show that college grads have better health outcomes throughout their lives.

Re: Google's Plan to Disrupt the College Degree Is Absolute Genius

#37

Post by gostsamo »

rokobobo wrote: post #23
gostsamo wrote: post #6

Is there such a term as "edmill"? A process of mass producing cheap labor for low-paid positions. This post just smells of hype and marketing for something like that.

I think back in the Soviet-influenced days of my country, people went to college knowing which job they'll be assigned at graduation. I guess this is the modern day PTUs? [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_technical_school

Soviet block country here as well. However, profession training schools are not communist invention and have their place in educating people for useful jobs. At least, I don't know how to build a high-quality bathroom and I don't think that people who can should not be valued less than someone who can make a terrible electron app. My UX in the former is much better tbh. :)

My issue is that this stuff now pretends to substitute for colleges which is totally different category. Six months of youtube videos are just professional training for office workers of the disposable type, not the creative/problem-solving variety that needs broad understanding of the field.

Re: Google's Plan to Disrupt the College Degree Is Absolute Genius

#38

Post by hamandcheese »

thehappypm wrote: post #30
goatherders wrote: post #9

College in the USA is an economic plague on young people. This most certainly can't be as bad.

Except that’s completely untrue. College degrees are well worth the investment — the earning potential increases of having a college degree vastly dwarf tuition costs. When people are young, debt is a problem, but those same people continue to see (exponential) income growth over the course of their careers and eventually beat the debt, and then some. Folks without degrees struggle with income growth.

This is just... not true? At least not among anyone I’ve ever known who didn’t go to school for CS, law, or med school.

Re: Google's Plan to Disrupt the College Degree Is Absolute Genius

#39

Post by robomartin »

I see a lot of negativity in this thread. What’s wrong with Google giving a bunch of people a taste and the opportunity to grow?

I prefer to believe in the ability of people to reach beyond their station in life. Sometimes all they need is inspiration. If Google can provide that it’s great.

Re: Google's Plan to Disrupt the College Degree Is Absolute Genius

#40

Post by twblalock »

F_J_H wrote: post #35
FpUser wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of the university is to give you wide angle of view and most importantly teach you how to educate yourself. I've studied physics back in Soviet Union's university ages ago for free and consider it the best ever thing. I later moved to Canada do just fine and can never thank enough my tutors.

.. for free . Would you have paid $60K - to $100K plus for the same? That is what students are facing now. Very few would disagree with the intangible benefits of a university education. They question is, how much is it worth, and how much debt should you take on to obtain those benefits?

> Would you have paid $60K - to $100K plus for the same?

Average new grad loan debt in the US is about $33k and the median is about $17k. It's not that bad.

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