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John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

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Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#31

Post by kevstev »

jokoon wrote: post #25

I see many developers betting on VR. I could see it happening everywhere but at home. At best VR somehow is a perfect argument on why people should play escape games or paintball/airsoft. It sound like a second version of the google glass. You just need to use some common logic: a video game works on a screen. It's too difficult to add new sensors. You cannot bridge reality and virtuality. You either have a video gam…

I tend to disagree. I won an Occulus Go at a meetup and almost gave it away- I didn't realize what I had won and just assumed it was some kind of upgraded google cardboard.

I was really surprised and delighted at how cool it was. It felt raw and fresh- almost like when I first got on the internet, there was just a whole new world to explore, and different types of content and games- some were cool, some were not, but were at least interesting in their mechanics. Especially during covid, I found it super neat that I could watch a basketball game in a "section" of a stadium and chat with those around me, and similarly watch a band perform.

The biggest drawback is that the form factor isn't all that comfortable, and battery life is an issue, but I think there is a tremendous amount of potential in terms of experiences.

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#32

Post by criddell »

dougmwne wrote: post #20

This talk was such a treat. After all the carefuly crafted hype from Zuck and the gang, Carmack threw huge bucket of cold water on everything. I think it's just wonderful that he's allowed to speak so openly, about the things he's proud of, the things he thinks are failures, internal politics, the possibilities for improvement, the real hard physical limits VR is running into, and his growing pessimism for the future…

> Time to see for myself if this is the computing future or an evolutionary dead end.

There's a third possibility - VR is finally here and consumer market is what it is. It's not going to take over the world but it isn't going away either.

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#33

Post by jayd16 »

kevstev wrote: post #31
jokoon wrote: post #25

I see many developers betting on VR. I could see it happening everywhere but at home. At best VR somehow is a perfect argument on why people should play escape games or paintball/airsoft. It sound like a second version of the google glass. You just need to use some common logic: a video game works on a screen. It's too difficult to add new sensors. You cannot bridge reality and virtuality. You either have a video gam…

I tend to disagree. I won an Occulus Go at a meetup and almost gave it away- I didn't realize what I had won and just assumed it was some kind of upgraded google cardboard. I was really surprised and delighted at how cool it was. It felt raw and fresh- almost like when I first got on the internet, there was just a whole new world to explore, and different types of content and games- some were cool, some were not, but…

You should try a 6Degree of freedom headset like the Quest or a PCVR headset too. It really does click into a sense of reality.

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#34

Post by runevault »

thomasfortes wrote: post #26
aantix wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AGI, artificial general intelligence as an independent researcher.

He was complaining a couple days ago in twitter that he couldn't buy a ton of expensive gpu machines on GCP as an independent researcher, but being John Carmack someone from google stepped up and fixed it for him.

Was that where he was talking about how Google wanted him to have a website to prove his validity (before people stepped in of course). Reading that thread was bizarre...

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#35

Post by dougmwne »

criddell wrote: post #32
dougmwne wrote: post #20

This talk was such a treat. After all the carefuly crafted hype from Zuck and the gang, Carmack threw huge bucket of cold water on everything. I think it's just wonderful that he's allowed to speak so openly, about the things he's proud of, the things he thinks are failures, internal politics, the possibilities for improvement, the real hard physical limits VR is running into, and his growing pessimism for the future…

> Time to see for myself if this is the computing future or an evolutionary dead end. There's a third possibility - VR is finally here and consumer market is what it is. It's not going to take over the world but it isn't going away either.

I'd say that is the same as a dead end. Right now this is a very expensive, multi-billion dollar toy with toy demonstrator apps and proof of concept games. It needs to be a game changer and the future of something or the research funding and developer ecosystem are going to dry up. And given the amount that Facebook must be losing on the Quest 2 and the all-in nature of this launch, if this doesn't take off now, the runway for Oculus at FB may be over.

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#36

Post by jtsiskin »

jokoon wrote: post #25

I see many developers betting on VR. I could see it happening everywhere but at home. At best VR somehow is a perfect argument on why people should play escape games or paintball/airsoft. It sound like a second version of the google glass. You just need to use some common logic: a video game works on a screen. It's too difficult to add new sensors. You cannot bridge reality and virtuality. You either have a video gam…

It doesn’t sound like you have tried a Quest.

I’m not sure I understand your argument at all - what is the logic you are following?

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#37

Post by ben_w »

dougmwne wrote: post #35
criddell wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Time to see for myself if this is the computing future or an evolutionary dead end. There's a third possibility - VR is finally here and consumer market is what it is. It's not going to take over the world but it isn't going away either.

I'd say that is the same as a dead end. Right now this is a very expensive, multi-billion dollar toy with toy demonstrator apps and proof of concept games. It needs to be a game changer and the future of something or the research funding and developer ecosystem are going to dry up. And given the amount that Facebook must be losing on the Quest 2 and the all-in nature of this launch, if this doesn't take off now, the…

In my opinion it’s just like every other games console: an expensive toy that no one needs and lots of people buy anyway because it’s decent fun.

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#38

Post by Robotbeat »

ben_w wrote: post #37
dougmwne wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that is the same as a dead end. Right now this is a very expensive, multi-billion dollar toy with toy demonstrator apps and proof of concept games. It needs to be a game changer and the future of something or the research funding and developer ecosystem are going to dry up. And given the amount that Facebook must be losing on the Quest 2 and the all-in nature of this launch, if this doesn't take off now, the…

In my opinion it’s just like every other games console: an expensive toy that no one needs and lots of people buy anyway because it’s decent fun.

Meh, the resolution is super close to where it needs to be to read comfortably in the headset and do real work (and with wireless headsets with inside-out tracking, the annoying setup overhead is all but eliminated). That can make it a valuable peripheral, like a nice monitor without all the space requirements.

It won't likely ever be as big of a platform as smartphones are, though. So I overall agree with you.

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#39

Post by Robotbeat »

GuB-42 wrote: post #19
smusamashah wrote: post #13

Has Occulus ever tried electromagnetic motion sensors. Sixense probably did that once, thought they never went into production but they said it was super precise and has very low latency. Occulus is tracking motion with camera which is way more CPU intensive than calculating position based on electromagnetic signals. One trouble they had though that it wouldnt work well with high energy electric items nearby. So dooe…

I think that the goal for Oculus is to do everything using headset-mounted cameras, without the need for a base station, so it makes sense for them to focus on image processing instead of specialized sensors. Cost also matters, especially for a $300 standalone headset, and extra sensors aren't free. One thing to realize is also that cameras (or lighthouses in the case of the Vive) are not the primary sensors. What re…

Cameras are also nice for enabling pass-through views. Works much better than you might think on the Quest. My phone hasn't been working the last few days, so I've been watching videos (etc) in the Oculus browser with the passthrough environment, and I can walk around a bit and do stuff (brush teeth, etc) while watching a video on a large screen, and it's relatively practical (hand tracking is still annoying and largely 2D so it's still better to use a controller), but this could be improved with software updates and the improved Quest 2. The view is stereoscopic and so eye-hand coordination works basically flawlessly (much better than I thought it would).

It'd be sweet if someone eventually made a headset with pass-through view with high resolution and ability to choose wavelength (UV to IR, maybe even a phased audio array to visualize sound sources for the deaf).

If you could make the tracking cameras work in the Sun and figured out a way to harden the display (perhaps using a protective electronic shutter system) to sunlight, it'd be closer to a general platform.

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#40

Post by munificent »

dougmwne wrote: post #35
criddell wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Time to see for myself if this is the computing future or an evolutionary dead end. There's a third possibility - VR is finally here and consumer market is what it is. It's not going to take over the world but it isn't going away either.

I'd say that is the same as a dead end. Right now this is a very expensive, multi-billion dollar toy with toy demonstrator apps and proof of concept games. It needs to be a game changer and the future of something or the research funding and developer ecosystem are going to dry up. And given the amount that Facebook must be losing on the Quest 2 and the all-in nature of this launch, if this doesn't take off now, the…

> It needs to be a game changer and the future of something or the research funding and developer ecosystem are going to dry up.

I hate that we live in a world so dominated by network effects, economies of scale, corporate consolidation, and shareholder value that there are fewer and fewer realms where "small success" still exists.

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