Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study • Hacker News Board

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#31

Post by PoachedSausage » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 1:02 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #24

Cro_on wrote: post #10

If there were ever a panacea, it would be fasting. The more tight and widespread the research becomes, the more that we prove what humanity has known anecdotally throughout civilisation. From being a Roman cure for epileptic seizures, through the integral practice in most religions, and to the 21st century where we start to prove that it increases both healthspan and lifespan. I find it quite interesting that somethi…

And yet, most of what you said is bullshit that's not evidence based. "Autophagy", that famous process which supposedly happens during fasting, that miraculously regenerates us, actually happens during caloric restriction, and it's actually a daily process that happens during the night, in everyone, while glycogen stores get naturally depleted. And we have no evidence that increased autophagy levels are beneficial, q…

Someone recently posted a link on HN to a book by an Herbert Shelton MD that you might find interesting:

https://web.archive.org/web/20110222200902/http://www.soilan...

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#32

Post by qntty » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 1:03 PM UTC

mmhsieh wrote: post #13

Cro_on wrote: post #10

If there were ever a panacea, it would be fasting. The more tight and widespread the research becomes, the more that we prove what humanity has known anecdotally throughout civilisation. From being a Roman cure for epileptic seizures, through the integral practice in most religions, and to the 21st century where we start to prove that it increases both healthspan and lifespan. I find it quite interesting that somethi…

while on fasts, you get an energy level and mental clarity that has to be felt to be believed. everyone should try it at least once.

I hear people say this a lot, but I've done plenty of fasting and rarely experienced this, and when I did, it was very mild. I don't know if I'm significantly outside the norm. The noticeable difference is that I feel pretty low energy after about ~24 hours of fasting.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#33

Post by xutopia » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 1:04 PM UTC

mmhsieh wrote: post #13

Cro_on wrote: post #10

If there were ever a panacea, it would be fasting. The more tight and widespread the research becomes, the more that we prove what humanity has known anecdotally throughout civilisation. From being a Roman cure for epileptic seizures, through the integral practice in most religions, and to the 21st century where we start to prove that it increases both healthspan and lifespan. I find it quite interesting that somethi…

while on fasts, you get an energy level and mental clarity that has to be felt to be believed. everyone should try it at least once.

I did a 3 day fast to see what it was all about. The energy levels were not there. I would get tired after a short brisk walk. Physically I was weaker but still had burst strength just no endurance or cardio.

Mentally however I found myself unable to have too many variables in my head and my mind was not more able to focus on something but less distracted with extraneous thoughts. I could if I wanted to shut off the chatter in my brain and meditation became very easy.

It is definitely a different mode for me and I do appreciate it but I'm told that many people in my family have ADD and that I might actually be showing symptoms that would go away when in ketosis.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#34

Post by wtetzner » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 1:05 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #24

Cro_on wrote: post #10

If there were ever a panacea, it would be fasting. The more tight and widespread the research becomes, the more that we prove what humanity has known anecdotally throughout civilisation. From being a Roman cure for epileptic seizures, through the integral practice in most religions, and to the 21st century where we start to prove that it increases both healthspan and lifespan. I find it quite interesting that somethi…

And yet, most of what you said is bullshit that's not evidence based. "Autophagy", that famous process which supposedly happens during fasting, that miraculously regenerates us, actually happens during caloric restriction, and it's actually a daily process that happens during the night, in everyone, while glycogen stores get naturally depleted. And we have no evidence that increased autophagy levels are beneficial, q…

Fasting isn't about starving yourself, or being malnourished. When you do eat, you should be getting plenty of calories, and eating well, not garbage.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#35

Post by 0-_-0 » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 1:07 PM UTC

feralimal wrote: post #18

Or perhaps, fasting is the cure, and can even undo the harm from chemo!

If I'm reading this correctly, the "harm from chemo" to the person was about the same, but the "harm from chemo" to the cancer was much more significant in the fasting group.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#36

Post by wtetzner » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 1:08 PM UTC

eperfa wrote: post #17

Looks like this study was initiated/sponsored by this company, specifically testing the effectiveness on what they call Fasting Mimicking Diet. https://l-nutra.com/pages/fasting-mimicking-diet If I understand correctly this is a low-calorie diet, which is easier to follow than a strict water-only diet, but they claim it is equally effective. They recommend it also for healthy individuals, 5 days a month. Does anyone…

Just from personal experience, I've found that fasting is actually easier that something like a fast-mimicking diet. Maybe there's something physiological going on, or maybe it's just psychological, but I find it much harder to eat a little bit than to just not eat. Then when I do get to eat, I can eat enough to feel satisfied.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#37

Post by adventured » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 1:08 PM UTC

xutopia wrote: post #33

mmhsieh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while on fasts, you get an energy level and mental clarity that has to be felt to be believed. everyone should try it at least once.

I did a 3 day fast to see what it was all about. The energy levels were not there. I would get tired after a short brisk walk. Physically I was weaker but still had burst strength just no endurance or cardio. Mentally however I found myself unable to have too many variables in my head and my mind was not more able to focus on something but less distracted with extraneous thoughts. I could if I wanted to shut off the…

Did you try it more than just for that three days (as in, try multiple fasts over time), and or try other variations of it (eg 16/8 intermittent fasting) to see if one of those might suit you better?

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#38

Post by dcolkitt » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 1:10 PM UTC

lawlorino wrote: post #22

Since this is likely to attract a lot of fasting practicioners to the comments I want to ask - I've occasionally tried out fasting or severe calorie restriction in the past but I always seem to get dizzy, weak and shaky in the first 24 hours and have to give up. This seems like a normal physiological response to be honest, how are people either avoiding or coping with this?

I've been doing some variant of intermittent fasting for about 8 years now. Of course, I'm not always consistent. There have been days, weeks or even months when I'm not disciplined.

At least in my experience, the sense of hunger is extremely tuned to one's internal clock. The body seems to absolutely know at what time of day it expects to eat. If I go a long time and never eat before 6 PM, I won't feel even a tinge of hunger until the evening. If I go on vacation, and eat lunch for a week, then the next day I'm ravenous by 12 PM.

The hardest thing about fasting is the transition. Once you've got a pattern, your body seems to pretty much just adjust and it becomes just as normal and effortless as eating breakfast, lunch and dinner. I say that because a lot of people try out fasting for a few days, suffer enormously and decide that the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Whereas I think if you get over the transition hump, most will find it's not nearly as bad as it seems to be when you first start out.

One technique that I think makes for a smooth transition is a modified version of partial fasting. To start, instead of completely abstaining during the fast window, restrict yourself to vegetables and berries. Don't touch the higher caloric density foods like meats, dairy, and starches inside the fast window. Truth be told, this probably isn't that bad a diet just to stay on forever, because it ups vegetable consumption so much. But if your goal is full fasting, it's a good way to make a full transition. Your body's internal clock starts getting used to much lower calories consumption in the fast window, but you don't have to feel like you're starving.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#39

Post by wtetzner » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 1:10 PM UTC

lawlorino wrote: post #22

Since this is likely to attract a lot of fasting practicioners to the comments I want to ask - I've occasionally tried out fasting or severe calorie restriction in the past but I always seem to get dizzy, weak and shaky in the first 24 hours and have to give up. This seems like a normal physiological response to be honest, how are people either avoiding or coping with this?

I think it's pretty normal. I don't know for sure, but it's possible that it's more or less the same effect as keto-flu.

Make sure that you get plenty of water and electrolytes.

Also, if 24 hours is too much, you can try intermittent fasting, and do 16 to 20 hour fasts.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#40

Post by abledon » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 1:10 PM UTC

wtetzner wrote: post #36

eperfa wrote: post #17

Looks like this study was initiated/sponsored by this company, specifically testing the effectiveness on what they call Fasting Mimicking Diet. https://l-nutra.com/pages/fasting-mimicking-diet If I understand correctly this is a low-calorie diet, which is easier to follow than a strict water-only diet, but they claim it is equally effective. They recommend it also for healthy individuals, 5 days a month. Does anyone…

Just from personal experience, I've found that fasting is actually easier that something like a fast-mimicking diet. Maybe there's something physiological going on, or maybe it's just psychological, but I find it much harder to eat a little bit than to just not eat. Then when I do get to eat, I can eat enough to feel satisfied.

drinking light vegetable broth?