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IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

ibanet.org

31–40 of 59 posts

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#31

It sickens me how little it seems to matter to people in our mainstream discourse whether or not Assange is treated as a human being. After he was removed from the Ecuadorian embassy, and officials said he had behaved erratically there and smeared feces on the walls, etc., the public reaction was along the lines of, “Wow, what a weirdo loser”—rather than, “Oh God, what have we done to this person?” It speaks poorly o…

Thing is, he damaged himself by choosing to spend nearly a decade in isolation. We haven’t done anything to him other than expect him to submit to due process as a citizen like any other. That he has driven himself half-mad is indeed tragic, but it’s not societies fault, nor is it sufficient to place him outside the law.

> Thing is, he damaged himself by choosing to spend nearly a decade in isolation.

He always argued that he would not receive fair treatment if he submitted himself to authorities, especially as they would give him no assurance about not handing him over to the US (this is before the US officially started proceedings against him).

> We haven't done anything to him other than expect him to submit to due process as a citizen like any other.

But the International Bar Association say that he is not getting due process. Which rather confirms his original fears. The article here quotes IBAHRI Co-Chair, Anne Ramberg: "With this extradition trial we are witnessing the serious undermining of due process and the rule of law."

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#32
post #6

People don’t care because he’s “a bad guy”. That’s where we’ve got to. Trouble is people aren’t brought up with an understanding of how things should be in a fair and just society. They’re brought up with some mucky mixed up perception that the world is some mashup of Hollywood and what the media says. There’s no moral compass for society any more. My personal take is he’s some sort of weird Russian asset and he’s a…

Do you think he's a bad guy? Leaving aside rape allegations, I would say his Wikileaks activity seems to be fairly harmful to both sides.

The Bradley Manning and other leaks probably hurt the Republican Bush government, and the Clinton Campaign leaks appear to have hurt the Democrats.

He may be a "bad guy" but he seems politically neutral.

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thing is, he damaged himself by choosing to spend nearly a decade in isolation. We haven’t done anything to him other than expect him to submit to due process as a citizen like any other. That he has driven himself half-mad is indeed tragic, but it’s not societies fault, nor is it sufficient to place him outside the law.

There is no way he would have gotten due process, which is why he went in in the first place.

He would have. The case was straight in the public eyes and he had a strong public sympathy back then. Instead he chose to be a fugitive and get in bed with Trump/Putin duo.

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#34
post #11
post #8

I can't think of a special reason why the UK would have it in for Julian Assange. I presume they are doing this in order to cow towel to their ally the United States. Do they not realize that the United States is likely to undergo a regime change at the beginning of next year? Do they think the new regime in the US will feel the same way about Julian Assange and will put the same kind of pressure on the UK that the T…

I'm guessing cow towel = kowtow. But... Perhaps you do treat your cows nice n stuff?

I think the term "cow towel" should be introduced into common usage. It's much more visual than "kowtow," e.g. "The UK is the US'cow towel."

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#36
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I care so much more about his physical and mental maltreatment by the legal system over the other millions experiencing the same everyday? If you asked why public discourse ignores this in general I would understand. Making no claims about his guilt or innocence.

I hate this argument. How can you care about the millions if you literally do not care about the one?

I don’t care much about Assange but that’s a fair statement.

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#37
post #6

People don’t care because he’s “a bad guy”. That’s where we’ve got to. Trouble is people aren’t brought up with an understanding of how things should be in a fair and just society. They’re brought up with some mucky mixed up perception that the world is some mashup of Hollywood and what the media says. There’s no moral compass for society any more. My personal take is he’s some sort of weird Russian asset and he’s a…

You're looking at history through rose colored glasses. Societal justice in the past meant basically "protect those in power, burn everyone else on sight." If you weren't part of the ruling group (be it by race, gender, ideology, etc.) then you had very few protections.

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#38
post #6

People don’t care because he’s “a bad guy”. That’s where we’ve got to. Trouble is people aren’t brought up with an understanding of how things should be in a fair and just society. They’re brought up with some mucky mixed up perception that the world is some mashup of Hollywood and what the media says. There’s no moral compass for society any more. My personal take is he’s some sort of weird Russian asset and he’s a…

>there's no moral compass for society anymore What? And there was more of such a compass a century ago when lynchings were much more common for "racial defilements"? Or two centuries ago when slaves were considered bad by the general public for escaping from the brutality of ownership? Or perhaps 600 years ago when witch burning was remarkably common in much of Europe? Not criticizing your defense of Assange (his tre…

> witch burning was remarkably common in much of Europe

Is that a moral issue, or one of knowledge / technologies?

You can only go on the best information you have, and many theistic beliefs are currently acceptable in the modern world despite being no less plausible than a belief in witches.

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#39
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there's no moral compass for society anymore What? And there was more of such a compass a century ago when lynchings were much more common for "racial defilements"? Or two centuries ago when slaves were considered bad by the general public for escaping from the brutality of ownership? Or perhaps 600 years ago when witch burning was remarkably common in much of Europe? Not criticizing your defense of Assange (his tre…

The fact that society isn’t perfect doesn’t dispel my point. It’s easy to dispel any argument by hand waving and saying “but look at all these other problems therefore you’re wrong!” I stand by the assertion that 60/70 years ago western society had a more unified sense of what is right and wrong. No doubt there were some major missing elements of that but the point stands.

> I stand by the assertion that 60/70 years ago western society had a more unified sense of what is right and wrong.

That would be 1950-1960. Speaking of America, Montgomery bus boycott started in 1955. Which took a year and started whole civil war movement. President Nixon’s red-baiting campaigns were at exactly that time too.

In Europe, IRA started their border campaign in 1956.

And that is just me going from top of head.

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#40
post #6

People don’t care because he’s “a bad guy”. That’s where we’ve got to. Trouble is people aren’t brought up with an understanding of how things should be in a fair and just society. They’re brought up with some mucky mixed up perception that the world is some mashup of Hollywood and what the media says. There’s no moral compass for society any more. My personal take is he’s some sort of weird Russian asset and he’s a…

I agree. I’m of the opinion that he is a bad person, yet this does not prevent me from saying the USA case against him feels political, nor does it prevent me from listening when the UN condemns the UK’s treatment of him or an international lawyer association condemning the process against him.
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