Live data from Hacker News

FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for Reliable Robotics

commercialappeal.com

31–40 of 182 posts

Re: FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for Reliable Robotics

#31
post #27

If FedEx and Amazon set up private airports dedicated to these machines, only put cargo in them, and make their flight routes distinct from other aircraft, I imagine this could be up and running faster than people think. Edge cases shouldn’t result in loss of life, so getting through regulations and insuring should be much easier than other situations.

Don't forget that aircraft falls on someone or someone's property.

To be fair, maintaining straight and level flight— i.e., not falling out of the sky— is the easiest part of flying an airplane. Computers have been good at that for a while; in fact, that’s how airline flights are controlled these days during basically all of cruise flight (by autopilot).

Takeoff and landing are the tricky parts.

(I say this as someone who’s firmly on the skeptical side of the spectrum regarding the near-term prospects for fully autonomous vehicle control.)

Re: FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for Reliable Robotics

#32
post #6

Who do people think will have their jobs replaced first, cargo pilots or truck drivers? One big factor is it often comes down to which worker group has a stronger union and likewise entrenched political interests at local levels, as we've seen in technological progress elsewhere. Second to that is probably the safety regulatory process. 'AI' or computer automation has also been used heavily in airplanes for a long ti…

My bet is actually on Jevons Paradox.

Re: FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for Reliable Robotics

#33

Frankly the tech for autonomous aviation has been around for a while now. I expect even strong crosswind landings will soon be better handled by a computer than a pilot. But then here’s the problem... Autonomous systems are great when things are going well, but at the end of the day they fare very poorly in edge cases sometimes with catastrophic results. When you’re driving a car you usually follow traffic rules and…

I think the best case scenario is to have an autonomous system that only steps in when the human pilot is doing something wrong. Then the pilots stay well-trained, while getting the benefits of autopilot. You could then manually give autopilot control for short periods in times when it is too dangerous for human pilots, ex. windy dark landings.

Well there’s an airplane manufacturer in Toulouse, France, named Airbus...

Re: FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for Reliable Robotics

#34

Frankly the tech for autonomous aviation has been around for a while now. I expect even strong crosswind landings will soon be better handled by a computer than a pilot. But then here’s the problem... Autonomous systems are great when things are going well, but at the end of the day they fare very poorly in edge cases sometimes with catastrophic results. When you’re driving a car you usually follow traffic rules and…

Well this is where I think autonomous planes would be superior. First off they could make determinations on their own, the old have three or more computers making decisions and voting, as well as be constantly updating and receiving from ground stations. This can be vital in a situation where the computer decides it no longer trusts its own inputs.

It all comes down to this, it won't be solved quickly, but with proper flight routing and use of specialized airports it can all be resolved without endangering the public. For the most part planes are not falling out of the sky on a regular basis but it would be interesting to see statistics on the number of registered events per miles flown.

Human ATC could still be involved, the words used for events can be very specific and the system can know how to respond to all of this. Automated flights would have special call signs and even may end up handled by assigned ATC to keep them separate.

Re: FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for Reliable Robotics

#35
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that aircraft falls on someone or someone's property.

To be fair, maintaining straight and level flight— i.e., not falling out of the sky— is the easiest part of flying an airplane. Computers have been good at that for a while; in fact, that’s how airline flights are controlled these days during basically all of cruise flight (by autopilot). Takeoff and landing are the tricky parts. (I say this as someone who’s firmly on the skeptical side of the spectrum regarding the…

Isn't turbulence hard to predict? Could something cause an issue. I always assume pilot take over or at least monitor things more aggressively when the plane starts shaking a lot.

Re: FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for Reliable Robotics

#36
post #27

If FedEx and Amazon set up private airports dedicated to these machines, only put cargo in them, and make their flight routes distinct from other aircraft, I imagine this could be up and running faster than people think. Edge cases shouldn’t result in loss of life, so getting through regulations and insuring should be much easier than other situations.

Don't forget that aircraft falls on someone or someone's property.

You wouldn't think twice about someone driving that exact same package 3000 km though right?

Planes simply don't fall on people even in worst case scenarios.

Losing power is actually what every meat pilot trains for.

Re: FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for Reliable Robotics

#38
post #6

Who do people think will have their jobs replaced first, cargo pilots or truck drivers? One big factor is it often comes down to which worker group has a stronger union and likewise entrenched political interests at local levels, as we've seen in technological progress elsewhere. Second to that is probably the safety regulatory process. 'AI' or computer automation has also been used heavily in airplanes for a long ti…

> One big factor is it often comes down to which worker group has a stronger union

Exactly this. For reference see why there are still humans on cargo trains.

Re: FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for Reliable Robotics

#39
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that aircraft falls on someone or someone's property.

To be fair, maintaining straight and level flight— i.e., not falling out of the sky— is the easiest part of flying an airplane. Computers have been good at that for a while; in fact, that’s how airline flights are controlled these days during basically all of cruise flight (by autopilot). Takeoff and landing are the tricky parts. (I say this as someone who’s firmly on the skeptical side of the spectrum regarding the…

There are landing procedures where the pilot simply follows the machine instructions for a long while already. And it works perfectly well where it's available.

Also, the take-off being easier, it's not conceivable that a machine couldn't do it. The reason there is no such machine today is exactly because it's easier, so pilots never need any help.

Instead, the hard part isn't flying. it's all the things an airplane does while landed. It's taxing, interacting with other planes, interacting with other vehicles (there are a lot of them in an airport), parking, etc. If the airport is entirely built for automation, I imagine that will become much easier.

Re: FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for Reliable Robotics

#40

Frankly the tech for autonomous aviation has been around for a while now. I expect even strong crosswind landings will soon be better handled by a computer than a pilot. But then here’s the problem... Autonomous systems are great when things are going well, but at the end of the day they fare very poorly in edge cases sometimes with catastrophic results. When you’re driving a car you usually follow traffic rules and…

Autopilots also rely on the instruments working perfectly. A human can usually safely land a plane even when all the instruments (and even the engines) fail.
Post reply on HN