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The potentially revolutionary Celera 500L aircraft

thedrive.com

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Re: The potentially revolutionary Celera 500L aircraft

#31

Post by AmVess »

jdhn wrote: post #18

I'm kind of curious as to why they went with the engine that they did instead of something based off of Chevrolet's LS engine architecture, but tuned for the unique demands of planes. Seems that they place efficiency as a high standard, and the LS series of engines are pretty efficient in terms of how much power they generate vs how much space the engine takes up.

The engine in the Celera is designed for aircraft use. It is a turbocharged turbodiesel.

In order to get the Chevrolet V-8 to work at altitude, you'd need to put a turbocharger on it which would destroy the fuel economy, especially in this application. Also, automotive engines are not designed to withstand the heavy duty cycle that this aircraft requires.

Re: The potentially revolutionary Celera 500L aircraft

#32

Post by Skunkleton »

geokon wrote: post #29

Is there a reason why small aircraft don't just use a car engine (with some appropriate gearing I guess)? Those have had so much R&D in them and they're pretty much as efficient as you can get - plus much easier to maintain and repair

Reliability would be my first concern. Power to weight is likely an issue as well. Here is some more info I found:

https://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/do-car-engines-make-good-...

Re: The potentially revolutionary Celera 500L aircraft

#33

Post by jacobwilliamroy »

bgorman wrote: post #14
Judgmentality wrote: post #7

The idea of being stuck in a plane for hours with no windows is...odd.

This is the future of airplanes. Windows add cost and reduce the structural integrity of the plane. Commercial airlines are already removing them. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44383220

Commercial airlines have a future? In the near future, only the wealthiest people will be able to fly, and good luck denying them windows. As for everyone else, Im thinking theyre taking the windows out because they are planning to convert over to cargo flights or something.

Re: The potentially revolutionary Celera 500L aircraft

#34

Post by Stevvo »

geokon wrote: post #29

Is there a reason why small aircraft don't just use a car engine (with some appropriate gearing I guess)? Those have had so much R&D in them and they're pretty much as efficient as you can get - plus much easier to maintain and repair

Efficiency at sea level does not equal efficiency at altitude. That said, there are some very impressive experimentals that do use auto engines.

Re: The potentially revolutionary Celera 500L aircraft

#35

Post by romski »

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #33
bgorman wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the future of airplanes. Windows add cost and reduce the structural integrity of the plane. Commercial airlines are already removing them. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44383220

Commercial airlines have a future? In the near future, only the wealthiest people will be able to fly, and good luck denying them windows. As for everyone else, Im thinking theyre taking the windows out because they are planning to convert over to cargo flights or something.

You can fly right now if you want to - flights are very cheap! What point are you trying to make?

Re: The potentially revolutionary Celera 500L aircraft

#36

Post by [deleted] »

gregschlom wrote: post #27
Animats wrote: post #23

It's a Diesel. The engine is made by RED in Germany.[1] Almost the same Diesel powers the YAK-152 trainer.[2] Celera avoids the term "Diesel", but that's what it is. It runs on Diesel fuel, or JET-A, which is much the same thing. The base engine has been flying for several years. This is the turbocharged model. So it's an engine design with some flight experience. [1] https://red-aircraft.com/ [2] https://en.wikipedi…

Ok, but so what? Is there something bad about diesel engines?

[deleted]

Re: The potentially revolutionary Celera 500L aircraft

#37

Post by Stevvo »

gregschlom wrote: post #27
Animats wrote: post #23

It's a Diesel. The engine is made by RED in Germany.[1] Almost the same Diesel powers the YAK-152 trainer.[2] Celera avoids the term "Diesel", but that's what it is. It runs on Diesel fuel, or JET-A, which is much the same thing. The base engine has been flying for several years. This is the turbocharged model. So it's an engine design with some flight experience. [1] https://red-aircraft.com/ [2] https://en.wikipedi…

Ok, but so what? Is there something bad about diesel engines?

Not at all, without question it's a superior fuel to leaded avgas.

Re: The potentially revolutionary Celera 500L aircraft

#38

Post by flak48 »

karlkatzke wrote: post #11

It seems to require a pretty seriously long runway to take off. On a warm day, we’re talking international airport length runway. While pistons are cheaper than turbines, that’s because almost all of the approved pistons on the market use 1940s or earlier technology. They are very, very, very simple machines. They are still extremely expensive. This engine is very complicated, even for an automotive engine. It’s got…

Since this plane is intended to compete with other business jets, don't owners of typical business jets mostly travel to (international) airports with long enough runways anyway?

Re: The potentially revolutionary Celera 500L aircraft

#39

Post by msandford »

gregschlom wrote: post #27
Animats wrote: post #23

It's a Diesel. The engine is made by RED in Germany.[1] Almost the same Diesel powers the YAK-152 trainer.[2] Celera avoids the term "Diesel", but that's what it is. It runs on Diesel fuel, or JET-A, which is much the same thing. The base engine has been flying for several years. This is the turbocharged model. So it's an engine design with some flight experience. [1] https://red-aircraft.com/ [2] https://en.wikipedi…

Ok, but so what? Is there something bad about diesel engines?

Nothing is inherently bad but diesels tend to be heavier for the power they make. And there's a fairly well understood weight vs reliability tradeoff. Light an unreliable is bad for airplanes and so is heavy and reliable. You want light and reliable, ideally.

Re: The potentially revolutionary Celera 500L aircraft

#40

Post by PowerfulWizard »

The fuel mileage sounds incredible, it's in the same range as an F150. The pilot must be a major part of the expense, meaning it could also be well positioned for an autonomous shuttle future, if those are ever fully trusted, bringing the cost down even further.

Obviously they still have a long way to but they are saying the right things to get me excited, even though my knowledge of aircraft efficiency is pretty minimal.

edit: It looks like the Yak-152 mentioned elsewhere in the thread can do about 14 mpg if wikipedia & my math is right.

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