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Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#31

Post by joe_the_user »

Funny this post should come now.

I've been dealing with a weird upgrade problem.

I noticed a problem with various software on my Android phone about a month ago - some software had stopped because it couldn't upgrade and I wasn't able to download anything from the Play Store. It seemed the phone was waiting for wifi to do anything. The only problem was Wifi would come never 'cause of Covid. Moreover, changing Play Store options failed to solved things and box in Android meant to change this had simply vanished ... several upgrade ago (hah, ha). Oh, and looked far and wide on the net for solutions.

That would only be the sad story of one more phone crufted to death ... except I did solve the problem. Accidentally. Yesterday. Trying to upload stuff by Google Drive, I found a wifi-only option disabled it ... magically, the Play Store worked now and everything I had order appeared. Apps worked again. Etc.

I'm not sure if I can think of a moral to this story but I'm glad of a context to share it in.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#32

Post by gruez »

kl4m wrote: post #12

> should never be used to install telemetry or spyware or to re-enable it if it was previously switched off I lost track of the number of times a friendly Windows 10 (and 7) update has re-enabled telemetry. Either that or there is yet another , completely different post-update Wizard for advertisement, telemetry, default applications, and other privacy stuff (There sure is a lot of effort put in moving settings aroun…

>I lost track of the number of times a friendly Windows 10 (and 7) update has re-enabled telemetry. Either that or there is yet another, completely different post-update Wizard for advertisement, telemetry, default applications, and other privacy stuff (There sure is a lot of effort put in moving settings around each update!)

...and that's why I'm using LTSC, because it's limited to security updates and supported for 10 years, rather than regular windows which gets "feature" updates every 6 months. For office, the equivalent would be perpetual (2016 or 2019) instead of 365.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#33

Post by chrisseaton »

taneq wrote: post #30
chrisseaton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t use keyboard shortcuts TBH.

This may explain why you don't see the harm in making workflow-breaking interface changes. More experienced operators who use expert interfaces (such as keyboard shortcuts) are much more badly inconvenienced by interface changes than operators who search the menus for each operation anyway.

> More experienced operators

Lol I manage to operate my computer to do advanced things just fine and still cope with update.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#34

Post by nordsieck »

chrisseaton wrote: post #28
stan_rogers wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that sounds inefficient for one of the parties - the provider. The provider isn't using the software to get work done, and doesn't incur training costs, etc. The provider's pet efficiencies cost the users real money (in the "a million here, a million there, and pretty soon you're talking real money" sense).

I can’t imagine any software update so drastic as to require ‘training costs’. Most reasonable people can figure out where a menu item has moved to.

> I can’t imagine any software update so drastic as to require ‘training costs’.

Both Windows and Office were notorious for this.

> Most reasonable people can figure out where a menu item has moved to.

As it turns out, many people who do low skill computer work do not adapt to change well.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#35

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

chrisseaton wrote: post #21
taneq wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somebody sneak into this guy's office and move his 'debug run' key from F5 to F9.

I don’t use keyboard shortcuts TBH.

Fine, swap your keyboard layout to Colemak (or, if you use that, to Dvorak, or just randomize the keys.) It's just a workflow/UI change, you'll get used to it.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#36

Post by fouc »

cs702 wrote: post #8

As a user of software, I couldn't agree more with the OP that automatic updates: > should always keep the user centric > should be incremental and security or bug fixes only > should never update a user interface without allowing the previous one to be used as the default > should never be used to install telemetry or spyware or to re-enable it if it was previously switched off > should never be used to install other…

Automatic updates are rather immoral for platforms like operating systems and browsers. And probably should be outlawed.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#37

Post by quelsolaar »

chrisseaton wrote: post #21
taneq wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somebody sneak into this guy's office and move his 'debug run' key from F5 to F9.

I don’t use keyboard shortcuts TBH.

Somebody sneak into this guy's office and remove his 'debug run' buttons and make it only accessible using keyboard shortcuts.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#38

Post by james-skemp »

chrisseaton wrote: post #5
spicybright wrote: post #3

I think in an ideal world, updates would be either optional major updates (UI changes, workflow changes, etc.) and minor updates (bug fixes, tweaks, etc.). Then a company can maintain those multiple major versions until they phase out support. CD software had this down pretty great. You could actually rely on a program not being pulled out from under you with an update.

> Then a company can maintain those multiple major versions That sounds completely unrealistic and inefficient for everyone involved.

I'm not sure that's unrealistic. Once upon a time software and services were supported for multiple versions back. Usually two major versions, the current and the last. (Granted, this was as a technical user, using technical tools.)

Now everyone wants you to use an auto updating piece of software (such as browsers), or cloud based services.

I'm give you that it was inefficient in the old days, but it also allowed users to purchase a piece of software (like Photoshop) and use it, with limited and then no official support, for as long as you'd like.

That's harder and harder to do these days.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#39

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and has the right to share it. Even in the case it may be unpopular amongst certain groups.

As an end user, I do not like automatic updates (which may or may not be "upgrades"). I try to avoid software that relies on this approach wherever I can. I consciously choose software that is not in constant flux, unless something is broken.

There is not a single software author that I trust enough that I just want to blindly allow them to install new software at their leisure without any input from me. To allow such practice is not my preference. I prefer to evaluate software before I install it. "Automatic upgrades" assumes there is not to be any evaluation by the user. Every update is assumed to be "all good". Of course, that may perfectly suit some users. However, other users have every right to be more discerning in their choices. No software author can naively guess exactly what it is I personally need or want from a piece of software. (The growing trend of using "telemetry" in place of actual user feedback is another topic worthy of discussion.)

The trend of automatic updates seems to encourage a form of software development where the software can be released "unfinished", in a soon-to-be broken condition (to later be fixed, or not) or in a state of flux where the number of knobs and dials can increase, the UI can change, etc. At worst, the quality of the software may change fundamentally over time, not always for the better. Essentially the user never gets to see the final product before deciding whether to use it. She is signing up for a work-in-progress.

This is an honest opinion from a bona fide computer user and I fully respect and appreciate differing persepectives, including the "mainstream" ones. Thank you to the HN forum for letting me share my thoughts on this matter.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#40

Post by ziml77 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #21
taneq wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somebody sneak into this guy's office and move his 'debug run' key from F5 to F9.

I don’t use keyboard shortcuts TBH.

If you're not using keyboard shortcuts, then there's much less ingrained in your muscle memory. You're using more conscious effort to perform tasks which means that when something changes you don't need to put forth extra effort to override the subconscious.

That gives you more adaptability, but the downside is lower efficiency in terms of both speed and energy expenditure.

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