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How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

christianpetroske.com

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Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#31

Post by bouzouk »

npsomaratna wrote: post #25
bouzouk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in Paris for a very long time and having started a few businesses (current one: a challenger bank with 20+ employees), I don’t relate to anything you are saying. Yes there are high taxes, (not half of the salary, for a software engineer it is very often around 30%) but they basically cover a lot of employee services that you would need to pay extra for in the US (health coverage, retirement,...). Most startup…

Out of curiosity, what's the challenger bank you started? I'd love to learn more.

Blank (https://blank.app) It’s a bank for freelancers and all self-employed workers. It’s launching in a few weeks ;)

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#32

Post by allan_s »

belzebalex wrote: post #9
Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

Yeah, as a French I can only completely agree. The amount of paperwork is just absurd. For instance, when you create a company, you have to pay a separate fee (~200eur) to a private "official journal" to publish the fact that you're creating a company. That's just plain racket, and that kind of things is everywhere. France is dying, because France can't have a private sector because of its regulations. The fun part i…

> you have to pay a separate fee (~200eur)

this number is incorrect , or you get fooled, I was working in a startup that was exactly helping people creating companies with the paperwork, including the step you're mentionning, and it was 20 to 30 euros , maybe 50 depending on the journal and option you take

200~300 euros was the price we billed for a startup creation including ALL the paperwork, admnistrative fee, publication fee, and the fact we will review all your documents before submiting them to the french administration and do the follow up with you in case your submission was still denied.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#33

Post by julienfr112 »

Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

Yes, default rates are quite high in France, but there are also subsides : JEI (jeune entreprise innovante), CIR (credit impot recherche) and CII (crédit impot innovation) and surrely others that can give you back a huge part of the taxes you pay. It's a PITA to fill, it keeps civil servants busy but hey, it can bring you tax and cotisations sociales (retirement / health) very low !!

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#34

Post by victor106 »

From what a few of my colleagues told me: France is very racist. Apparently this is true in most of Europe. Everything looks okay on the surface but they are deep racial undertones. They tell me that believe it or not America is the one of the least racist countries. It does not mean there’s no racism in America just that it’s lesser.

It’s easy for immigrants to assimilate into society in America than most places in EU. Till that changes no matter how easy it is to get a startup visa it won’t make a difference.

I don’t know how true that is. Can someone with more experience please validate?

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#35

Post by [deleted] »

Uberphallus wrote: post #24
bouzouk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in Paris for a very long time and having started a few businesses (current one: a challenger bank with 20+ employees), I don’t relate to anything you are saying. Yes there are high taxes, (not half of the salary, for a software engineer it is very often around 30%) but they basically cover a lot of employee services that you would need to pay extra for in the US (health coverage, retirement,...). Most startup…

> not half of the salary More than half if you consider taxes on the company. A 30k salary costs the company about 80k. Sure, there are loads of social services, but still. In the company I created we did the work ourselves, and sometimes hired freelancers for certain things we're not familiar/experts in, but without external funding taking one single employee is a major blow to the accouting of a small company. With…

[deleted]

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#36

Post by bouzouk »

Uberphallus wrote: post #24
bouzouk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in Paris for a very long time and having started a few businesses (current one: a challenger bank with 20+ employees), I don’t relate to anything you are saying. Yes there are high taxes, (not half of the salary, for a software engineer it is very often around 30%) but they basically cover a lot of employee services that you would need to pay extra for in the US (health coverage, retirement,...). Most startup…

> not half of the salary More than half if you consider taxes on the company. A 30k salary costs the company about 80k. Sure, there are loads of social services, but still. In the company I created we did the work ourselves, and sometimes hired freelancers for certain things we're not familiar/experts in, but without external funding taking one single employee is a major blow to the accouting of a small company. With…

I’m sorry but no: a 30k salary does not cost the company 80k! It costs around 41k, or 49k if you take into account employee taxes (here is a simulator from the French government: https://entreprise.pole-emploi.fr/cout-salarie/).

« Comité d’entreprise » are for 50+ employees and not 20.

What’s the use in throwing around fake numbers just to make your point?

Even if that sure must be a nice place to live, that is the first time I heard Sophia Antipolis being the « Silicon Valley of France » :) Yes France startup ecosystem is highly polarized around Paris. But hey, just like Silicon Valley right? That’s a very different problem.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#37

Post by read_if_gay_ »

victor106 wrote: post #34

From what a few of my colleagues told me: France is very racist. Apparently this is true in most of Europe. Everything looks okay on the surface but they are deep racial undertones. They tell me that believe it or not America is the one of the least racist countries. It does not mean there’s no racism in America just that it’s lesser. It’s easy for immigrants to assimilate into society in America than most places in…

Am asian, born and grew up in Germany. Apart from the very, very occasional dickhead I don't think anyone's racist. Can't make a comparison to the US though.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#38

Post by tasogare »

Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

French here. This is very true. The whole economic incentives are made for big CAC40 companies whose owners/CEO are friends with the lawmakers. The small and medium companies, as individuals, are the most taxed out there. If you own a company and paid yourself you had to pass through 4 layers or so of taxation.

> Financial and investing groups in France are very conservative.

A friend set up a company, like you said having first another job, and it took 3 years IIRC to get a loan from a bank. All its initial money was love money coming from family and friends investors.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#39

Post by mjohn »

raverbashing wrote: post #20
nix23 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> €157,806+: 45% That's the problem you see?

UK rates for comparison Personal Allowance Up to £12,500 0% Basic rate £12,501 to £50,000 20% Higher rate £50,001 to £150,000 40% Additional rate over £150,000 45% https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates

That's a bit of a simplification.

From £9.5k to £50k you pay 12% national insurance in addition to income tax, so it's really 32% not 20% tax.

Over £50k you pay 2% national insurance.

Your employer will also be paying 13.8% national insurance.

Once your income exceeds £100k you start losing your personal allowance at a rate of £1 for every £2 over £100k, so you have no personal allowance after earning over £125k. This means that your effective marginal tax rate between £100k & £125k is about 60%

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#40

Post by bondant »

jwr wrote: post #29

Please write a blog post with a more complete list of podcasts that you listen to and sites that you read! It turns out it is surprisingly difficult to find pointers to sites and podcasts if you speak French, but do not live in France. The internet is really good at keeping us in our bubbles, making a lot of assumptions on geolocated IPs. As a side note, I will add that there is one thing that is somewhat problematic…

> Please write a blog post with a more complete list of podcasts that you listen to and sites that you read!

>It turns out it is surprisingly difficult to find pointers to sites and podcasts if you speak French, but do not live in France. The internet is really good at keeping us in our bubbles, making a lot of assumptions on geolocated IPs.

If you have a good level in french, I would advise you to listen to France Culture. I think the programmes are quite good, I personally really liked the audio series, for instance "L'incroyable expédition de Corentin Tréguier au Congo". Another interesting programme of this summer is the ongoing interviews with "modern mercenaries/privateer" [3]

[1] https://www.franceculture.fr/emissions

[2] https://www.franceculture.fr/emissions/lincroyable-expeditio...

[3] https://www.franceculture.fr/emissions/le-monde-des-espions-...

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