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If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

software.rajivprab.com

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Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#31

Post by bluntfang »

kristopolous wrote: post #15
seibelj wrote: post #3

Valid reasons to work for a startup: - You are a cofounder. - You have little experience and you are using this to break into the industry, and get experience on many different technologies ("wear many hats"). - They are working on a very specific problem or using a specific technology that you strongly desire to work on and it's difficult to do it anywhere else. - You want to work a certain way (remote, on the beach…

For me I'm far too naturally transgressive to work at a large company. I really wish I could, life would be easier, less work, less stress, pay better... None of them will take me so I keep help building and (sometimes) exiting startups. It's really exhausting. 20 years of this... I wish more companies would value those who "challenge the book" instead of "follow the book" or that I could find a way to obediently fol…

>I wish more companies would value those who "challenge the book" instead of "follow the book" or that I could find a way to obediently follow it instead of challenge it.

it sounds like you've identified a personal problem with a clear goal, the next logical step would be to shop around therapists who think they might help you achieve that specific goal. and i think it's very important to shop them. Maybe even read a few books on how to find the right therapist for you. It's important to not get stuck on one who you don't like or who isn't interested in help you the way you want to be helped. I've found with therapy that sunk cost fallacy is real when you've found one that really doesn't fit with your goals.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#32

Post by neltnerb »

sambroner wrote: post #4

Good read. I like the new story format to rehash the lively startup vs big tech employment debate on HN. It could almost use a part 2 to explain aspects of the conversation (how is the employee making a $300k investment, preferred stock, etc), but I don't think anyone is missing the joke. The story format makes it clear how employees are getting a worse deal than investors. Still, employees receive cash dividends eve…

The employees receive "cash dividends" that are typically lower than market rates for a salary plus the second they leave for a new job they will likely end up creatively shafted out of the difference in salary they effectively invested in good faith.

Because they're not working there anymore it's "demoralizing to others" if they retain the ownership that, again, they invested a part of their salary for in good faith. You've probably heard that one before.

It is absolutely outrageous to tell an employee that they're getting paid less in exchange for equity and then turn around and declare that the equity doesn't count the same as if they got paid market rates and just invested a portion of their salary.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#33

Post by goatherders »

maps7 wrote: post #27
seibelj wrote: post #3

Valid reasons to work for a startup: - You are a cofounder. - You have little experience and you are using this to break into the industry, and get experience on many different technologies ("wear many hats"). - They are working on a very specific problem or using a specific technology that you strongly desire to work on and it's difficult to do it anywhere else. - You want to work a certain way (remote, on the beach…

I would like to work for a startup as a way to move/improve my stack but looking at some startup job postings show that they want Googler-tier devs with decades of experience while paying nothing

What they want and what they end up hiring are very rarely the same.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#34

Post by kristopolous »

WaxProlix wrote: post #21
kristopolous wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me I'm far too naturally transgressive to work at a large company. I really wish I could, life would be easier, less work, less stress, pay better... None of them will take me so I keep help building and (sometimes) exiting startups. It's really exhausting. 20 years of this... I wish more companies would value those who "challenge the book" instead of "follow the book" or that I could find a way to obediently fol…

You should get a therapist (or a life coach?), these sorts of problems are rarely confined to just the work space.

Yeah, probably. It's certainly worth giving it a go.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#35

Post by dannykwells »

kristopolous wrote: post #15
seibelj wrote: post #3

Valid reasons to work for a startup: - You are a cofounder. - You have little experience and you are using this to break into the industry, and get experience on many different technologies ("wear many hats"). - They are working on a very specific problem or using a specific technology that you strongly desire to work on and it's difficult to do it anywhere else. - You want to work a certain way (remote, on the beach…

For me I'm far too naturally transgressive to work at a large company. I really wish I could, life would be easier, less work, less stress, pay better... None of them will take me so I keep help building and (sometimes) exiting startups. It's really exhausting. 20 years of this... I wish more companies would value those who "challenge the book" instead of "follow the book" or that I could find a way to obediently fol…

So I have a PhD, and do empathize with being "transgressive", but I'll say I think it's less about the PhD than it is about being right.

If you are bull headed and drive really hard in a new area, you better be right because you are taking responsibility and accountability for that area (whether you think you are or not). High risk, high reward - sound familiar? This is true at Google, at startups, in academia. So it's really more of a personality thing - if you're ok being obedient, you also don't need to bear the stress of accountability. But if not, well, no degree will alleviate that stress.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#36

Post by elwell »

kristopolous wrote: post #15
seibelj wrote: post #3

Valid reasons to work for a startup: - You are a cofounder. - You have little experience and you are using this to break into the industry, and get experience on many different technologies ("wear many hats"). - They are working on a very specific problem or using a specific technology that you strongly desire to work on and it's difficult to do it anywhere else. - You want to work a certain way (remote, on the beach…

For me I'm far too naturally transgressive to work at a large company. I really wish I could, life would be easier, less work, less stress, pay better... None of them will take me so I keep help building and (sometimes) exiting startups. It's really exhausting. 20 years of this... I wish more companies would value those who "challenge the book" instead of "follow the book" or that I could find a way to obediently fol…

I like the simplicity of your homepage.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#37

Post by StreamBright »

Some of these problems are coming from the reason that many of the startups are unicorns, with other words pyramid schemes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbescommunicationscouncil/201...

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-tech-startups-behaving-ne...

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#38

Post by StreamBright »

try-perforate wrote: post #13

Isn't this capitalism? Labor and capital are two different factors of production. If you're willing to take the pay cut and risk associated w/ joining a startup, but are unhappy with the returns, why wouldn't you just keep your job, invest the $100,000, and get access to the preferential terms given to capital?

It would be classical free market capitalism if anybody with any money could be investing in anything. This is not the case in the US where you need to qualify as an investor prior of being able to invest in startups or companies.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#39

Post by nogabebop23 »

seibelj wrote: post #3

Valid reasons to work for a startup: - You are a cofounder. - You have little experience and you are using this to break into the industry, and get experience on many different technologies ("wear many hats"). - They are working on a very specific problem or using a specific technology that you strongly desire to work on and it's difficult to do it anywhere else. - You want to work a certain way (remote, on the beach…

to add another valid (yet totally invalid) point: You want an impressive job title. At an established company you're going to be a Software Developer or Engineer level n; at a startup you can easily be Lead, Director of or even a VP if that's important to you.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#40

Post by kristopolous »

elwell wrote: post #36
kristopolous wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me I'm far too naturally transgressive to work at a large company. I really wish I could, life would be easier, less work, less stress, pay better... None of them will take me so I keep help building and (sometimes) exiting startups. It's really exhausting. 20 years of this... I wish more companies would value those who "challenge the book" instead of "follow the book" or that I could find a way to obediently fol…

I like the simplicity of your homepage.

I stopped feeling obligated to being fancy a couple years ago.

It's running off a raspberry pi at my apartment and is really more about giving me access to my network of computing resources here.

I've been meaning to make a generative poetry engine and just put it there without disclosing it. It could probably be pretty believably human if it's restricted enough.

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