Earlier quoted context omitted.
When have those decades of research ever actually been applied to "create a platform that's more beneficial for society?"
You're joking right? You're proving the article's point. The social sciences have informed policymakers for decades. The US was founded by social scientists (as TFA defines them, the social sciences include philosophy and so on).
Computing belongs within the social sciences
31–40 of 64 posts
Re: Computing belongs within the social sciences
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Entities and disciplines can communicate without being the same. An idea we seem to be losing, not in small part thanks to social science.
> not in small part thanks to social science. I'm genuinely curious what you are referring to here?
Computing requires a common language and a common understanding, as does any discipline where you are dealing with the real world. If you extend social theory into computing you WILL end up with people claiming it is discriminatory to privilege any ideas within the field. Sounds like a nightmare to me.
Re: Computing belongs within the social sciences
#33I agree that there should be room for ethics but the recommendations in the article seem extreme and lacking. Especially the "Web development" example in section 2 seems to be quite off. In fact the counterargument for section 2 seems to be very convincing! CS/IT is such a broad, rapidly progressing field that you cannot be prepared enough on technical subjects. As someone who has no formal CS education I'm impacted…
As part of my major, I was required to take: two calculus courses, two physics (or chemistry–but almost nobody did) courses, linear algebra, and two discrete math courses. I can confidently say that aside from some very basic physics from the first of the two classes, I have used absolutely none of the knowledge in any of those courses in my life, and if we are just talking about my career (mostly working on Etsy and Trello), then I haven't even used the physics. The rest, I have effectively forgotten completely.
Some of my CS electives also proved not to be that useful for much; for example, my courses on computer graphics, compilers, and operating systems. I retain some basic knowledge from those courses which sometimes come in handy for quickly understanding tangentially-related concepts, but definitely nothing to spend entire semesters on.
Of course, I'm not arguing that nobody who studies computer science should learn the things I've listed, but it seems silly to me to make them required. I took both my calculus and physics courses during my first year of college, and by my third year, I had probably forgotten almost 100% of it. In terms of my career trajectory, and even in terms of the value of knowledge/education for the sake of being knowledgable/educated, it was a complete waste of my time and money.
Often times, I wish I was able to learn a wider variety of things in college.
I think the bigger issue here is that computer science is so tightly coupled with software engineering. I hope that as time goes on, we get better at separating the disciplines in the same way that we've separated other sciences from engineering (e.g. chemistry vs chemical engineering, physics vs mechanical/civil engineering, etc.).
Re: Computing belongs within the social sciences
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Physicists and mechanical engineers simply do not wield the same amount of power that computer scientists/software engineers do. FYI the article does not suggest literally putting CS in the social science department. TFA is just arguing that in light of how CS is applied in society, computer scientists need to be more broadly educated. I was a cryptography PhD student for awhile and I can tell you by-and-large CS aca…
On the contrary it's easy to make this argument for physics. Would physicists have developed the atomic bomb if they had been required to take a few extra courses in social sciences and if physics departments had an extra multi-disciplinary professorship? I don't believe this would have made any difference. The suggestions are at the same time radical and pointless. Arguably he is simply trying to colonize other fiel…
The difference between the atom bomb and CS is that the latter has a ubiquity of access and reproducibility that subject it to completely different ethical and philosophical concerns. The atom bomb doesn't change or influence our understanding of how political discourse operates in modern democracies. Things like social media and GPT-3 do.
Re: Computing belongs within the social sciences
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think the issue with big social networks (and other big tech actors) is one of ignorance. It seems to me many of the bad things they do are very deliberate. Sometimes the things they don't care about are also very deliberate. Google is perhaps the champion of causing harm by not caring about things. This is sometimes ascribed as being caused by their "engineering-centric culture", but I fail to see how engine…
Try to avoid generic phrases like "causing harm". "Google is the champion of circumventing long established norms, such as the prohibition on wiretapping, and evading responsibility for doing so" says a lot more than "causing harm".
Calling Google wiretapping would be like calling your bank a wiretapper because they log every transaction. Those previously listed bad actors with badges agencies doing so would be business as usual.
It is utterly exasperating to see "Big Tech" magically become the magnet for blame of things they don't even remotely do and see people believe any ole bullshit that confirms their preconceptions.
Re: Computing belongs within the social sciences
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the contrary it's easy to make this argument for physics. Would physicists have developed the atomic bomb if they had been required to take a few extra courses in social sciences and if physics departments had an extra multi-disciplinary professorship? I don't believe this would have made any difference. The suggestions are at the same time radical and pointless. Arguably he is simply trying to colonize other fiel…
Historically that may have been true; I won't argue that point. The difference between the atom bomb and CS is that the latter has a ubiquity of access and reproducibility that subject it to completely different ethical and philosophical concerns. The atom bomb doesn't change or influence our understanding of how political discourse operates in modern democracies. Things like social media and GPT-3 do.
Re: Computing belongs within the social sciences
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
> not in small part thanks to social science. I'm genuinely curious what you are referring to here?
My, admittedly limited, understanding of current social science theory seems to claim more and more that boundaries of race, class, gender etc are real boundaries that preclude identification and understanding. I identify with men, because I am a man, I can't possibly understand a woman's point of view for the same reason. We are encouraged to believe in privileged positions where knowledge is spesific to this positi…
Also, as I've mentioned in another comment, the article is not advocating for computer science and social sciences to 'become the same', but to improve communication and mutual appreciation and knowledge. (The title is a bit unfortunate.)
Re: Computing belongs within the social sciences
#38This obsession with teaching (tech) workers ethics is a bourgeois pastoral fantasy.
Someone needs to read some Foucault.
Re: Computing belongs within the social sciences
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Try to avoid generic phrases like "causing harm". "Google is the champion of circumventing long established norms, such as the prohibition on wiretapping, and evading responsibility for doing so" says a lot more than "causing harm".
Blaming Google for that is some bizzare history retconning bullshit. You want the DHS, FBI, CIA, and NSA for that. Calling Google wiretapping would be like calling your bank a wiretapper because they log every transaction. Those previously listed bad actors with badges agencies doing so would be business as usual. It is utterly exasperating to see "Big Tech" magically become the magnet for blame of things they don't…
On the other hand, Google drove surveillance vans all over the world, hoovered up people's home network wifi frames, and promoted the engineer who "accidentally" introduced that "bug". If that isn't circumventing a norm against wiretapping, I'm not sure what is.
Re: Computing belongs within the social sciences
#40Seriously, there is the same pattern of vague claims to benefits, one-sided elective requirements while poisoning the well to call anyone who disagrees with them close-minded and evil. Sadly/fortunately interdisciplinary never explicitly teaches this sort of bullshitting. Sadly because it could be useful in these fights, fortunately because we are all better off with a minimium of this crap wasting our lives.