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California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

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Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#31

Post by segfaultbuserr »

0x402DF854 wrote: post #16

Obligatory book recommendation: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/33369264-blackout This terrifying novel describes fragility of our society and its absolute dependence on power grids. Must read in my books

The more terrifying fact is that the scenario described in the novel has already partially happened in the real world.

* New Clues Show How Russia’s Grid Hackers Aimed for Physical Destruction

> Russian hackers planted a unique specimen of malware in the network of Ukraine's national grid operator, Ukrenergo. Just before midnight, they used it to open every circuit breaker in a transmission station north of Kyiv. The result was one of the most dramatic attacks in Russia's years-long cyberwar against its western neighbor.

https://www.wired.com/story/russia-ukraine-cyberattack-power...

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#33

Post by bpfrh »

0x402DF854 wrote: post #16

Obligatory book recommendation: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/33369264-blackout This terrifying novel describes fragility of our society and its absolute dependence on power grids. Must read in my books

I read that book, it is good, there is a good presentation about how difficult it would be to do that in reality, based on the same source that the book used:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjingj2473Y

The original is in german, the linked video is the english translation.

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#34

Post by mpweiher »

cobookman wrote: post #12
lisper wrote: post #2

The entire U.S. is feeling more and more like a third-world country. Corrupt government. Unreliable and deteriorating infrastructure. Extreme poverty (I recently learned that 30% of houses on Indian reservations don't have running water). Marginalization or even outright vilification of intellectuals. 75 years ago we saved the world from fascism. Who is going to save us from ourselves? :-(

You do realize that most 1st world countries have experienced a rolling black of some sort in the same time period. 1 rolling black out every 20 years isn't all that crazy. Would you rather we spend billions/trillions on infrastructure used for 3 days every 20 years?

> most 1st world countries have experienced a rolling black out

Name one?

I've never experienced (or heard) of one in Germany, for example, during my lifetime.

And of course it's not "rolling blackout", but "rolling blackouts", plural.

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#35

Post by refurb »

heavyset_go wrote: post #22
refurb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just your human brain succumbing to its recency bias. As someone who has been around for way too many decades, it was like this in the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's. And corruption is way down from say the early 1900's (don't even talk about the 1800's where it was odd for a politician to not be corrupt). And your "save the world from fascism" happened at the same time most of the US was segregated.

And inequality is up since the 70's, as are housing, health care and cost of living expenses, while wages have remained stagnant for nearly 50 years.

Sure, you can cherry pick certain statistics for any period. That doesn’t tell you anything.

My point was, the US is not falling apart. Or if it is, it’s always been falling apart.

The current situation is not unique.

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#36

Post by 0xffff2 »

edge17 wrote: post #29

Where is all the load coming from? Aren't most of the office building (in the Bay Area) empty rightnow due to Covid?

There's a heat wave up and down the entire western US. Everyone from San Diego to Seattle is at home running their A/C if they're lucky enough to have one.

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#37

Post by moojd »

chrisseaton wrote: post #18
lisper wrote: post #2

The entire U.S. is feeling more and more like a third-world country. Corrupt government. Unreliable and deteriorating infrastructure. Extreme poverty (I recently learned that 30% of houses on Indian reservations don't have running water). Marginalization or even outright vilification of intellectuals. 75 years ago we saved the world from fascism. Who is going to save us from ourselves? :-(

> The entire U.S. is feeling more and more like a third-world country. Corrupt government. Unreliable and deteriorating infrastructure. Extreme poverty (I recently learned that 30% of houses on Indian reservations don't have running water). Marginalization or even outright vilification of intellectuals. Americans have been saying this about their own country for decades. Many people see the worst in their own. And if…

It's a manifestation of our inner American Exceptionalism. We only have the ability to see our country as "exceptionally good" or "exceptionally bad"

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#38

Post by khuey »

manquer wrote: post #26
khuey wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we really need to pay for an electric grid that can handle a once every 20 year load?

Grid yes , maybe not the power plants themselves. Typically in robust networks you have good interconnects to neighbours you can purchase power from . Also robust grid which enables selling back to the grid would have helped, such extreme hot weather goes in hand with solar generation

The problem is not lack of grid capacity. California is capable of importing upwards of 11 GW[0] but there was only around 8 GW[1] available yesterday because it's hot in neighboring states like Oregon too.

The load shedding occurred around 8-10pm after the sun has gone down (but while it's still quite hot) so more solar wouldn't help much.

[0] http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.aspx and select 9/13/2019 [1] Same as above but select 8/14/2020.

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#39

Post by blhack »

lisper wrote: post #2

The entire U.S. is feeling more and more like a third-world country. Corrupt government. Unreliable and deteriorating infrastructure. Extreme poverty (I recently learned that 30% of houses on Indian reservations don't have running water). Marginalization or even outright vilification of intellectuals. 75 years ago we saved the world from fascism. Who is going to save us from ourselves? :-(

I would highly encourage you to reassess where you are getting your information about the world if you genuinely believe this.

I’m seeing this sentiment expressed more and more, and it seriously concerns me. If you look at the data, almost any data which compares the US to other countries, you’ll see that the US is at or near the top.

This isn’t blind patriotism. Seriously if you are feeling like the US is becoming a “3rd world country” see if you can quantify it in some way. What is deteriorating, and how does that compare to other places in the world?

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#40

Post by khuey »

mpweiher wrote: post #34
cobookman wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that most 1st world countries have experienced a rolling black of some sort in the same time period. 1 rolling black out every 20 years isn't all that crazy. Would you rather we spend billions/trillions on infrastructure used for 3 days every 20 years?

> most 1st world countries have experienced a rolling black out Name one? I've never experienced (or heard) of one in Germany, for example, during my lifetime. And of course it's not "rolling blackout", but "rolling blackouts", plural.

I don't know about most but it's certainly not unheard of in places with similar climates. https://www.news.com.au/national/south-australia/rolling-bla...
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