What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)

#31

Post by wtetzner » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 5:03 PM UTC

wombatmobile wrote: post #19

jbotz wrote: post #3

It's an old trope in Sci Fi that alien intelligences would be so different from us that we couldn't even begin to comprehend them. Octopuses belie that idea... although we share some DNA, our last common ancestors barely had a nervous system, so any similarities in cognition between us really are the product of paralllel evolution. And since their environments are also very different from ours, this parallel evoution…

Thank you for sharing those comments, jbotz. > We don't know how common or rare sentience and consciousness are in the Universe, but because of the Octopus I believe that if ever we do encounter non-terrestrial sentience we'll have no trouble recognizing it and will find that we have enough in common to establish communications and a relationship. And... what of terrestrial sentience?

> Although first we'd do well to do a better job at communicating with and respecting the many non-human sentient beings on this planet.

Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)

#32

Post by Afton » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 5:03 PM UTC

mellosouls wrote: post #26

I can't read the article at the moment to judge, but going by some of the comments, the original famous essay of this ilk (exploring the idea of consciousness by imagining experiencing life as an very different species) might be of interest. https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_It_Like_to_Be_a_Bat%3...

Nagel's essay is mentioned explicitly.

Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)

#33

Post by wombatmobile » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

wtetzner wrote: post #31

wombatmobile wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for sharing those comments, jbotz. > We don't know how common or rare sentience and consciousness are in the Universe, but because of the Octopus I believe that if ever we do encounter non-terrestrial sentience we'll have no trouble recognizing it and will find that we have enough in common to establish communications and a relationship. And... what of terrestrial sentience?

> Although first we'd do well to do a better job at communicating with and respecting the many non-human sentient beings on this planet.

How?

Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)

#34

Post by baxtr » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 5:22 PM UTC

jbotz wrote: post #3

It's an old trope in Sci Fi that alien intelligences would be so different from us that we couldn't even begin to comprehend them. Octopuses belie that idea... although we share some DNA, our last common ancestors barely had a nervous system, so any similarities in cognition between us really are the product of paralllel evolution. And since their environments are also very different from ours, this parallel evoution…

You’re optimistic. I like that. On a different note: I think it’s also possible to imagine that humans will try to eat the aliens. Some love eating cuttlefish.

Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)

#35

Post by qwertygnu » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

This was a really awesome article! Very well written and utterly thought-provoking.

Also this blurb from the author's website is amazing[1]:

> To research her books, films, and articles, Sy Montgomery has been chased by a silverback gorilla, embrced by a Giant Pacific Octopus and undressed by an orangutan. But she is perhaps best known for her 14 year love affair with Christopher Hogwood, a runt piglet who grew to a 750-pound great Buddha master.

[1] http://symontgomery.com/

Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)

#36

Post by spaetzleesser » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

jbotz wrote: post #3

It's an old trope in Sci Fi that alien intelligences would be so different from us that we couldn't even begin to comprehend them. Octopuses belie that idea... although we share some DNA, our last common ancestors barely had a nervous system, so any similarities in cognition between us really are the product of paralllel evolution. And since their environments are also very different from ours, this parallel evoution…

I personally believe that at some point civilizations will stop using their bodies and live in something like computers or whatever it will be by then. So we may already be living in a highly networked universe without noticing it.

With all the technological progress I can’t imagine why someone would want to deal with our very flawed bodies in the long run. We are already getting more and more of our experiences though means like TV and the Internet and I don’t see that trend stopping.

Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)

#37

Post by nico_h » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

wombatmobile wrote: post #33

wtetzner wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Although first we'd do well to do a better job at communicating with and respecting the many non-human sentient beings on this planet.

How?

Gorillas can use sign language, dogs can use speaking buttons, I’m sure dolphins or orcas could be taught something we would recognise as language, maybe even chimpanzé

Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)

#38

Post by sradman » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #16

jbotz wrote: post #3

It's an old trope in Sci Fi that alien intelligences would be so different from us that we couldn't even begin to comprehend them. Octopuses belie that idea... although we share some DNA, our last common ancestors barely had a nervous system, so any similarities in cognition between us really are the product of paralllel evolution. And since their environments are also very different from ours, this parallel evoution…

Can we comprehend them? From what I've read about it, consciousness in octopuses has to be completely alien to ours, because it's spread out over multiple brain centers, including one for each arm. So the arm is a semi-intelligent entity of its own. No idea to what extent the article discusses this; part of it is blocked by a paywall, after which it continues about eating moluscs. But just like people eat octopuses,…

> Can we comprehend them? From what I've read about it, consciousness in octopuses has to be completely alien to ours...

What is completely alien is the evolutionary path compared to our own. What feels familiar is the connection you feel with these animals when they interact with you. They seem to be caught in a comical struggle between fear and curiosity. It feels human.

Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)

#39

Post by GuB-42 » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #25

Octopus intelligence is phenomenal achievement when you consider the restrictions they have: 1. No social interaction or learning. Octopuses[1] live alone. 2. Short life span. Most of them live only few years in the wild. ---- [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-many-plura...

I think that lifespan it is their biggest disadvantage, and the reason why there is no octopus civilization, unless you want to go beyond the Mountains of Madness.

Modern humans for instance spend more time learning than the lifespan of most animals. If we were limited to a lifespan of 20 years, which is typical for a mammal of our weight class, human society would have been very different. Make it 5 years and there probably wouldn't have been any society at all.

This, I believe, makes them even weirder. With so much intelligence, why didn't they evolve longevity as a way to capitalize on their experience? Why didn't they develop collective strategies that are so effective in other animal species?

Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)

#40

Post by praptak » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

jbotz wrote: post #3

It's an old trope in Sci Fi that alien intelligences would be so different from us that we couldn't even begin to comprehend them. Octopuses belie that idea... although we share some DNA, our last common ancestors barely had a nervous system, so any similarities in cognition between us really are the product of paralllel evolution. And since their environments are also very different from ours, this parallel evoution…

Let's not forget we have much work to do about communicating and respecting between different very-much-human groups on this planet.