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Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

reuters.com

31–40 of 372 posts

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#31
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't see any change that can realistically take roots there. We have seen harsh sanctions fail to bring changes in a small poor country like NK where anyone looking South must be amazed at where they could have been. In case of PRC, forget a kinetic physical action. Their economy is so interconnected with every other major economy that no one can afford even actual sanctions.

The most practical outcome seems to be a gradual emigration of all the HK citizens to the UK/other countries. I can imagine citizens forming networks where they would warn each other of an upcoming arrest so their friends/family would scurry out of the country. I am hopeful that the sheer number of citizens in HK would perhaps lead to the city retaining some of its independence. We can't predict the future... who kno…

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#32
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with any of this at all; in fact I'd piggy back and go further: the Chinese Communist Party is increasingly a totalitarian regime. Whereas Vladimir Putin and the Russian oligarchs are mostly interested in preserving their power and wealth, and threatening/assaulting/murdering the people who get in the way, the Chinese Communist Party regime seems to have much broader goals. From the Falun Gong persec…

Xi Jinping and the CCP’s official goal is for the Chinese people and everyone else to have a common destiny. Interpret these how you wish, because they are interpreting these how they wish.

There are definitely Han-supremacy fascist elements. Xi Jingpin's speeches have a clever interplay between sounding patriotic and whilst edging into aforementioned motifs.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#33
post #17
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've claimed authority to extradite anyone (including non-Chinese citizens) under this new law.

And invoked that authority: China has pressed charges against an American citizen who lives in America for conduct that took place in the United States. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/01/china/hong-kong-activists-arr... R.I.P Westphalian sovereignty

This is irrelevant, whether such law should exists is a different matter.

USA arrests, say Islamic terrorists, for conduct that occurred outside USA. If you incite acts against USA you will get charged no matter where you are.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#34

This is crazy. First the Muslim concentration camps, now this. Why won't the Western world impose any serious sanctions against China? We have invaded others countries for less

We have never invaded any countries for purely human-rights oriented reasons. There is always a larger element of preservation of power structures and capture of wealth. But both of those reasons would also align with an intervention in China. The true answer to why we haven't intervened is both mundane and terrifying: China has nuclear weapons.

Even without the nukes, there is no practical way for the U.S. to project enough force to China to compel it to do anything. The Chinese people would not likely thank us for doing so if we tried. Not only that, it would be grossly disproportionate considering there are hundreds of millions of people in dozens of countries living under authoritarian rule elsewhere. All those states combined would probably make a softer target than China. So as long as we are planning to cure the world's ills with our guns let's start in Eritrea or something.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#35
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't see any change that can realistically take roots there. We have seen harsh sanctions fail to bring changes in a small poor country like NK where anyone looking South must be amazed at where they could have been. In case of PRC, forget a kinetic physical action. Their economy is so interconnected with every other major economy that no one can afford even actual sanctions.

The most practical outcome seems to be a gradual emigration of all the HK citizens to the UK/other countries. I can imagine citizens forming networks where they would warn each other of an upcoming arrest so their friends/family would scurry out of the country. I am hopeful that the sheer number of citizens in HK would perhaps lead to the city retaining some of its independence. We can't predict the future... who kno…

I think that is easy for us as outsiders to say or hope. Leaving everything behind and moving into a foreign land with a different culture is hard and not a lot of places are very welcoming.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#36
Why are we empowering this regime? Shouldn't we force companies like Apple to make a statement of why they manufacture their goods in China?

Apple is happy make a statement about BLM - it is cheap, doesn't cost them anything. But when it comes to things that actually harm profits and challenge shareholder responsibilities, they stay mum. We need to force Apple (and other giant corporations) to speak up about atrocities in HK and what their stance is. Before you downvote me, please, I plead you to respond about your thoughts - is there a reason why we shouldn't? Why is there no noise about this? No one seems to be protesting at Apple HQ.

Imagine:

WWDC 2021 - Opens with strong statements about how Apple supports democracy and open culture, how they appreciate people's voices and ability to think with liberty, how they inspire great people when government is of the people, by the people and for the people.

Alas - democracy will slowly erode away, chip away at a pace slow enough for normal humans like me and you to not be bothered, life goes on. One small step after another. Until you look back at the erosion and its a massive cliff.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#37
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And invoked that authority: China has pressed charges against an American citizen who lives in America for conduct that took place in the United States. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/01/china/hong-kong-activists-arr... R.I.P Westphalian sovereignty

> China has pressed charges against an American citizen who lives in America for conduct that took place in the United States. > R.I.P Westphalian sovereignty This reminds me of our arrest (well, Canada's arrest at our demand) of Meng Wanzhou.

It really shouldn't. She's alleged to have committed bank fraud against American banks. Bank fraud is a crime everywhere.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#38

This is crazy. First the Muslim concentration camps, now this. Why won't the Western world impose any serious sanctions against China? We have invaded others countries for less

Why isn't the Middle East on fire with protest over Xinjiang, given the response to eg Abu Ghraib. It's a similar reason: 1) they know China doesn't care and will disregard their protests or moral condemnations; 2) most countries are terrified of China, in multiple regards; 3) in much of the world, people only respond to events when they're told to - allowed to - by authorities (to protest against China in the Middle East for example, it must be sanctioned by the government or similar controlling power, and no government in the Middle East dares). What about the West, surely Germany or France can stand up to China, right? That's covered by #2, they're afraid of what China will do to them economically, so they limit their criticisms and actions toward China. Suddenly no more BMWs or Mercedes for sale in China. Accordingly mostly what you get is some furious hand waving and stern finger pointing by the UN or EU. As with SARS-CoV-2, in which absolutely nothing will happen to China as a result of what they did.

The US is the only entity that can stand toe to toe with China, as China can splinter any UN or EU response. Ultimately to get some other countries on board, they have to believe the US has their back full-stop. Such that when China starts throwing an inevitable response tantrum, the US will be there to lend unconditional, unflinching support. Who trusts the Trump government's erratic behavior enough to believe that at this point? You have to bet your nation's economic well-being on believing that his administration will have your back if you join the restrain-China coalition. Most countries will naturally avoid taking that risk and will attempt to hedge or dodge the matter. The West will only be able to mount a serious long-term plan once Trump is gone. The powermongers in DC love this style of great power bipolar struggle, a return to the cold war, a very clearly defined giant enemy to focus on; but they can't effectively do anything until Trump is gone, there's too much chaos in the system.

It'll look like this: US + EU + Japan + Britain + South Korea + Canada + Australia + New Zealand + South Korea (along with a few others) working in closer unison, running a program. It's the only approach that can work, China is too big for anything else at this point. China does a thing, the group responds. Huawei is a haphazard trial run; the team is going to have to get into fighting shape, because China isn't messing around, they want the global hegemony crown and total dominance over Asia.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have never invaded any countries for purely human-rights oriented reasons. There is always a larger element of preservation of power structures and capture of wealth. But both of those reasons would also align with an intervention in China. The true answer to why we haven't intervened is both mundane and terrifying: China has nuclear weapons.

Even without the nukes, there is no practical way for the U.S. to project enough force to China to compel it to do anything. The Chinese people would not likely thank us for doing so if we tried. Not only that, it would be grossly disproportionate considering there are hundreds of millions of people in dozens of countries living under authoritarian rule elsewhere. All those states combined would probably make a softe…

You'd think? The US is the only nation that is in a position to do anything about it. While sanctions won't compel the CCP, it could hurt them enough to prevent further cementing their hegemony.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#40
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China has pressed charges against an American citizen who lives in America for conduct that took place in the United States. > R.I.P Westphalian sovereignty This reminds me of our arrest (well, Canada's arrest at our demand) of Meng Wanzhou.

It really shouldn't. She's alleged to have committed bank fraud against American banks. Bank fraud is a crime everywhere.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/07/11/asia-pacific/ho...

>"Trudeau also rejected the idea of a prisoner swap for Meng Wanzhou — eldest daughter of Huawei’s billionaire founder Ren Zhengfei — saying an exchange would “demonstrate to China that they can just arrest Canadians and get what they want out of Canada.” "

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