TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday • Hacker News Board

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#31

Post by jychang » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #25

carlosdp wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article, they are also contesting the fact the order was rushed and bans ByteDance from retaining US lawyers once the ban is in effect, which is a violation of due process. So the legal argument from ByteDance actually has merit in that respect, regardless of the political debate.

> bans ByteDance from retaining US lawyers once the ban is in effect, which is a violation of due process To counter the parent’s comment, this sounds like something a totalitarian state would do

Are you implying the USA is a totalitarian state now?

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#32

Post by chrisco255 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

boublepop wrote: post #17

Seems natural. The only proof he has of the claims of risks against national security seems to be his typical wild ramblings of “a lot of people say! Everyone knows! Just read the manuals, read the books!” While not being able to mention a single name or fact. If trump forces trough this sale, the EU are bring morons if they don’t forcefully take over EU facebooks and LinkedIn business by Wednesday next week.

Public rhetoric is one thing, but private discussions go on with the president from intelligence officials all the time.

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#33

Post by chrischen » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

slowhadoken wrote: post #6

Seems bold considering China’s firewall and all the US social media and chat apps it’s banned.

I’m Chinese but you wouldn’t preface my actions with “consider China’s firewall.”

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#34

Post by chrischen » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 9:24 PM UTC

cmurf wrote: post #24

djsumdog wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legal argument is much more clear though. The US can impose embargo via executive order. Keep in mind Australia dropped Huawei over security concerns for their national broadband network back in 2012. China is a totalitarian regime that suppresses speech and is reeducating an entire ethnic group, possibly even forcing them into factory jobs.

Saudi Arabia is also a totalitarian regime. It suppresses speech, executes citizens prejudicially and extrajudicially even outside their own borders, arrests and charges women's rights activists of treason, dozens of executions by beheading of non-violent drug offenders per year, human rights activists are arrested and imprisoned without trial, and so on. Maybe we should just stop doing business with Saudi Arabia too…

No but we need their oil and alliance. It benefits us so that is ok—oops, I’ve said too much.

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#35

Post by chrisco255 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 9:24 PM UTC

nine_zeros wrote: post #20

I am not opposed to a ban. However, I am opposed to the executive having the power to force companies (foreign or otherwise) to sell assets. We are really entering developing country territory here.

They're not forced to sell. They would simply lose access to the US market. They've already lost access to the Indian market.

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#36

Post by lostlogin » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 9:24 PM UTC

cmurf wrote: post #24

djsumdog wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legal argument is much more clear though. The US can impose embargo via executive order. Keep in mind Australia dropped Huawei over security concerns for their national broadband network back in 2012. China is a totalitarian regime that suppresses speech and is reeducating an entire ethnic group, possibly even forcing them into factory jobs.

Saudi Arabia is also a totalitarian regime. It suppresses speech, executes citizens prejudicially and extrajudicially even outside their own borders, arrests and charges women's rights activists of treason, dozens of executions by beheading of non-violent drug offenders per year, human rights activists are arrested and imprisoned without trial, and so on. Maybe we should just stop doing business with Saudi Arabia too…

What do you suggest doing though? It would seem that giving them lots of money and arms isn’t a good way of dealing with them either.

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#37

Post by chrischen » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 9:27 PM UTC

justinzollars wrote: post #29

I support TikTok in this matter. I'm not comfortable with the United States banning companies. We should strive to be the best place on earth to do business in. We are an open country and we benefit from being open. We benefit from competition. If I'm afraid China is taking my personal information, it's up to me, the consumer, to delete the app. It's up to Apple to design APIs to prevent real theft of such things as…

I would argue banning TikTok if it had politics would be even worse.

Just today Facebook deleted the QAnon group. In a free speech society, such control of “what’s good for us” should not be necessary.

While China’s authoritarian government can certainly be abused, they often ban things under the same excuse of “promoting harmony” and to ensure the public does not have Access to misinformation (nor information harmful to the regime). We’re not much more different if we have powerful players who can arbitrarily ban things under the same goals, even if momentarily altruistic.

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#38

Post by lykr0n » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

Firebrand wrote: post #2

Is this an attempt by ByteDance to retain control of the company?

There's two orders out. The 2nd one targets ByteDance and prevents US companies from doing business with them.

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#39

Post by djohnston » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 9:29 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #21

slowhadoken wrote: post #6

Seems bold considering China’s firewall and all the US social media and chat apps it’s banned.

"China does it too" is not as strong argument as it sounds.

it is stronger when the reciprocal action is levied towards China. it isn't whataboutism it's tit for tat and it's as old as diplomacy.

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#40

Post by bigpumpkin » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 9:31 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #10

puranjay wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be a good political argument but not a legal one.

The legal argument is much more clear though. The US can impose embargo via executive order. Keep in mind Australia dropped Huawei over security concerns for their national broadband network back in 2012. China is a totalitarian regime that suppresses speech and is reeducating an entire ethnic group, possibly even forcing them into factory jobs.

"There are exceptions to that power that lawyers for TikTok will likely underscore in their litigation. For instance, the authority cannot be used to regulate or prohibit either "personal communication" or sharing of film and other forms of media, which TikTok can argue is the primary use of its app."