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Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

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Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#31

Post by jbarciauskas »

rbecker wrote: post #29
jbarciauskas wrote: post #19

There are a lot of replies here asking about correlation with non-racial factors such as economics or crime. The fact of the matter is that Blacks in America are poorer, suffer higher rates of unemployment, lower educational attainment and are forced to live in higher crime areas as the result of decades of racist housing policies and centuries of oppression. This is reflecting that legacy. Black people pay many diff…

> Blacks in America are poorer, suffer higher rates of unemployment, lower educational attainment and are forced to live in higher crime areas as the result of decades of racist housing policies and centuries of oppression. How do they fare in other countries, with different histories? Edit: Expanded the question to make it clearer.

I don't understand the question.

The OP was edited in response to this, but I'm still mystified. I'm not making a particular claim about anything other than the experience of Black people in America, so I don't see how the question is relevant.

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#34

Post by Simulacra »

zozin wrote: post #20

This is looking at the problem backwards. Neighborhoods with higher proportions of African-Americans living in them are charged higher insurance premiums because AAs tend to be poorer, less educated, etc. because of their unique history in this country (slavery, racism, Jim Crow, etc.), which results in them being more likely to live in rougher/poorer neighborhoods, thus warranting higher insurance premiums. Giving A…

We have that. It’s called gentrification. If you elevate an area, for whatever reason, more non-AA’s will move in. Unless you’re speaking about neighborhood segregation?

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#35

Post by rbecker »

jbarciauskas wrote: post #31
rbecker wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blacks in America are poorer, suffer higher rates of unemployment, lower educational attainment and are forced to live in higher crime areas as the result of decades of racist housing policies and centuries of oppression. How do they fare in other countries, with different histories? Edit: Expanded the question to make it clearer.

I don't understand the question. The OP was edited in response to this, but I'm still mystified. I'm not making a particular claim about anything other than the experience of Black people in America, so I don't see how the question is relevant.

How is it not relevant? When studying any phenomenon, why blind yourself to all data except that from the US? Comparing with other countries is the first thing you'd do when looking at public transport or healthcare, so what makes this case different?

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#36

Post by dcolkitt »

lightgreen wrote: post #24
dcolkitt wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that this is an important distinction. But isn't there a third option: the market's not perfectly competitive and pricing isn't just driven by the cost but also what consumers will bear? For example, this can be seen in men's vs. women's home staples. Things like razors and deodorant tend to have much higher list price for their feminine versions. This isn't because women's razors cost more to make. Nor is it…

> Women tend to be burdened with more responsibilities than men, and thus have less time to carefully comparison shop. Or maybe because women care more about brands and men just pick what’s cheaper. Or maybe because men need smaller variety of options. Or maybe because men consume more razors per store visitor. Or maybe because men spend less time in stores per dollar spent and selling for men is cheaper. Or a dozen…

American adult women have approximately 4 hours less of leisure time per week:

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/03/14/chapter-6-time-in...

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#37

Post by AstralStorm »

rbecker wrote: post #35
jbarciauskas wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the question. The OP was edited in response to this, but I'm still mystified. I'm not making a particular claim about anything other than the experience of Black people in America, so I don't see how the question is relevant.

How is it not relevant? When studying any phenomenon, why blind yourself to all data except that from the US? Comparing with other countries is the first thing you'd do when looking at public transport or healthcare, so what makes this case different?

The problem being, the countries with major numbers of people of African descent are, you guessed it right, in Africa and completely different economically from United States of America.

What such a comparison would prove? That poor people in a rich country are on average better off than people in a poor country?

Propose a good reference group please. I'd only mildly hazard a guess that perhaps South Africa might be a good comparison, since it's not a particularly poor country and has sizable numbers of blacks. Secondary, France, but it has a very different economical system and has not had obvious racial divides in near past.

One data point for South Africa: https://businesstech.co.za/news/business/129980/

Not particularly great there either.

Data for UK is interesting but it's not a valid reference group due to small presence of blacks: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwor...

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#38

Post by rbecker »

AstralStorm wrote: post #37
rbecker wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it not relevant? When studying any phenomenon, why blind yourself to all data except that from the US? Comparing with other countries is the first thing you'd do when looking at public transport or healthcare, so what makes this case different?

The problem being, the countries with major numbers of people of African descent are, you guessed it right, in Africa and completely different economically from United States of America. What such a comparison would prove? That poor people in a rich country are on average better off than people in a poor country? Propose a good reference group please. I'd only mildly hazard a guess that perhaps South Africa might be…

> What such a comparison would prove?

Prove? No, what can be learned. If you want to fix healthcare, you look at countries with working healthcare systems and see what you can copy. Same here.

And there's plenty of countries with black populations even outside Africa - the France and South Africa you mentioned, then there's also the UK, Sweden, half a million in Germany, a million in Spain, Jamaica, and I'm going to guess a large number of South American. 1.4 million in Mexico, 300 thousand in India (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddi), and I'm sure I missed plenty.

It's the height of US exceptionalist hubris to think nothing can be learned from all these countries.

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#39

Post by AstralStorm »

rbecker wrote: post #38
AstralStorm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem being, the countries with major numbers of people of African descent are, you guessed it right, in Africa and completely different economically from United States of America. What such a comparison would prove? That poor people in a rich country are on average better off than people in a poor country? Propose a good reference group please. I'd only mildly hazard a guess that perhaps South Africa might be…

> What such a comparison would prove? Prove? No, what can be learned . If you want to fix healthcare, you look at countries with working healthcare systems and see what you can copy. Same here. And there's plenty of countries with black populations even outside Africa - the France and South Africa you mentioned, then there's also the UK, Sweden, half a million in Germany, a million in Spain, Jamaica, and I'm going to…

What can be learned is that pay and employment is stratified by ethic group. However, UK not as strongly as US or South Africa, and very differently.

Still haven't found data for France, probably have to look for it in French.

For UK, my suspicion is that type of employment for Bangladeshi/Pakistani/Chinese workers is higher vs lower paying jobs.

This probably does not quite fit the employment structure for blacks in the USA at all. But if it does, the question is then: why blacks are denied access to well paying professional jobs?

In British case, the racial differences are mostly caused due to first generation immigrant biases, such as language barrier or cultural fit. (Esp. see salaries of older Indian descent.) This should not matter for USA. If it does, then why is US black culture, extant for many generations, being biased against?

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#40

Post by AstralStorm »

kryogen1c wrote: post #18

it really is telling that articles like this arent laughed off the face of the planet. if this were a univariate, observational study of a medical condition claiming "some correlation" with an r2 of .3, the authors would be fighting mobs with pitchforks and torches. its such a cheap play at current politics. if people cannot discern this from science, we truly are lost.

Weak correlations are fine, as long as they're consistent and statistically significant.

This generally means that there is a factor causing a misfit with the simplistic base model. It's fine if the factor is properly identified, which it is not in this case. I think a logarithmic fit would give much higher R2 than linear. (Logistic fit is commonly used for prices and salaries.)

This problem goes away with multifactor analysis as you see correlation in errors or not, or using nonlinear least squares, NLS.

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