The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free • Hacker News Board

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#31

Post by nmfisher » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 9:51 AM UTC

hootbootscoot wrote: post #16

makomk wrote: post #13

I think a more accurate description is that the elite narrative is paywalled but the one for the proles is free - and the elite are absolutely convinced their narrative is the truth. The contents of, say, New York Times or Washington Post reporting on the state of US Covid-19 testing and contact tracing and how it compares to the rest of the world, the evidence on mask wearing, or anything to do with Trump or protest…

I highly disagree. Rupert Murdoch is surely one of the most elite of the elites and his vast media empire has managed to brainwash certain folks into calling his vision "populism" due strictly to his outreach efforts. It would also appear that you didn't read the article, as your point is not the topic of the article. The article is about copyright law running counter to information accessibility, running counter to…

> Rupert Murdoch is surely one of the most elite of the elites and his vast media empire has managed to brainwash certain folks into calling his vision "populism" due strictly to his outreach efforts.

It's also possible you have the arrow of causality reversed. Murdoch's media could just be printing what that "the proles" want to hear.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#32

Post by HPsquared » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 9:54 AM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #8

ferros wrote: post #3

I would be willing to pay an amount for better quality news than what can be found for free, however news outlets always seem to lean one way. I want somebody to just report and not tilt it in one direction.

[flagged]

I'm not a fan of the left-right dichotomy; it's a kind of shorthand derived from historical reasons, which encourages tribalism.

Even to take it at face value, 'left' and 'right' are only directions, not absolute positions. There is no objective centre.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#33

Post by rbecker » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 9:55 AM UTC

> Breitbart, Fox News, the Daily Wire, the Federalist, the Washington Examiner, InfoWars: free!

As is salon.com, theatlantic.com, theroot.com, vox.com, huffingtonpost.com, slate.com, and also somehow missing from that list, CNN!

I appreciate the point the author is trying to make, and realize this is tangential, but I would be grateful if he didn't try to deceive me with the choice of examples.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#34

Post by fock » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 9:57 AM UTC

for me as a self-declared european conservative (in the history of the social(isty)-centrist-catholic parties) this page gives hope that the USA, even if currently split in between wars of oil, race and money might still have the potential to become, what it once was: a beacon of light for any honest, community-oriented and republican (in the most basic sense) democrat.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#35

Post by goto11 » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 9:58 AM UTC

ferros wrote: post #3

I would be willing to pay an amount for better quality news than what can be found for free, however news outlets always seem to lean one way. I want somebody to just report and not tilt it in one direction.

> I want somebody to just report and not tilt it in one direction.

This is unfortunately not possible. Even if an outlet only providing objective, verifiable facts there is some angle or bias in what facts you chose to report and what issues you chose to investigate.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#36

Post by raxxorrax » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 9:59 AM UTC

rawfan wrote: post #24

thewhitetulip wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even if there were a bundle of that, people'll still find a way to complain about it and they'd still not want to pay for news.

People always complain. A significant amount of people happily pays for Netflix and its likes, though.

Speak for yourself, I pay for Netflix grumpily!

But jokes aside I stopped paying for my last newspaper subscriptions some time ago because I just didn't find the time to read and thought they were developing in a wrong direction.

I think Netflix TV shows have some kind of normalized content that I would fear would be mirrored if the service existed for news.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#37

Post by thundergolfer » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 10:00 AM UTC

This is a long-ish article, as per usual for N Robinson, and I think people ITT are focusing only on the start. Yes free vs. subscription news media is an interesting and important issue, but this article goes on to make a more wide-reaching and incisive criticism of how Capitalism structures the production and distribution of information or knowledge (Current Affairs is a socialist magazine).

Information production is dominated by the super-rich and the state, and access to knowledge (not merely information) is carefully controlled for the benefit of and use by the highly educated, wealthy elite.

An aspect that I often think about is how the vast majority of truly top-tier multimedia (books, articles, movies) has been created decades ago. A person could, for example, spend multiple lifetimes reading the amazing academic and artistic literature in the public domain. But such an existence is terribly unprofitable, so it's heavily discouraged in favour of a content-diet full of pop-culture ephemera. Alan Kay said about Pop Culture, that it "is all about identity and feeling like you're participating, It has nothing to do with cooperation, the past or the future—it's living in the present." Such over-stimulating, disorienting, and fashionable multimedia, perhaps perfected by Buzzfeed, is making us energetic consumers, and idiots. Amused to death drinking from a firehose of 'free'.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#38

Post by MattGaiser » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 10:02 AM UTC

quietbritishjim wrote: post #29

ferros wrote: post #3

I would be willing to pay an amount for better quality news than what can be found for free, however news outlets always seem to lean one way. I want somebody to just report and not tilt it in one direction.

One compromise is to find a news source that is at least open about its bias. The Economist is a famous example of this: it will openly declare support (and opposition) for particular political candidates and policies.

The Economist at least seems to be good at giving its opponents space within its pages (for those of us who still subscribe to the print edition).

So while they have a bias they acknowledge, it isn't a "beat them into submission" type of bias.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#39

Post by 5etho » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 10:02 AM UTC

rawfan wrote: post #22

I just want Netflix for journalism. I don't want a super expensive sub to a dozen papers. I want one subscription, they all should be included (maybe offer different tiers if you are an arse) and it shouldn't be more than $20/month. Go.

and how much you think journalists should earn? 10k/yr?

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#40

Post by fock » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 10:03 AM UTC

rbecker wrote: post #33

> Breitbart, Fox News, the Daily Wire, the Federalist, the Washington Examiner, InfoWars: free! As is salon.com, theatlantic.com, theroot.com, vox.com, huffingtonpost.com, slate.com, and also somehow missing from that list, CNN! I appreciate the point the author is trying to make, and realize this is tangential, but I would be grateful if he didn't try to deceive me with the choice of examples.

is CNN really putting up anything except news - of which reuters/AP/UPI already give a pretty good overview for free? And while all the left/neoliberal (and clickbaity) things you noted are free, they are less concerned with news, but more opinion – to my knowledge they don't try to make the impression of a news outlet as much as the listed ones (which carry typical news-speak even in their name!)