A React implementation of Spectrum, Adobe’s design system • Hacker News Board

Re: A React implementation of Spectrum, Adobe’s design system

#31

Post by still_grokking » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 8:54 PM UTC

still_grokking wrote: post #17

harel wrote: post #9

One of the things that I always find missing in these libraries/collections is a date/time picker. I know these are available via many separate projects, but it's nice if one picks a collection like that, that all inputs are homogeneous.

That's only an "issue" of all that "modern" stuff. Many, many years ago I've used Dojo[1] and it's component lib Dijit. It had all that complex widgets in the toolbox. With all the "advantage" stuff like ARIA and internalization. Or you could use Ext, if you could pay it. But than all this "modern 'component' stuff" came form nowhere and you've been back to stone age, where you didn't have even the most basic compone…

It's funny to see facts down-voted by an usually well informed and rational public. :-D

Still, facts are facts, no matter how sloppy the wording I've chose.

I didn't mean to diminish the effort put into that one incarnation of those so called design systems. I've only mentioned that it's (like all others of the "modern" ones I've seen until now) light years behind what you could have got 10+ years ago.

If I would like to really offend some people here I would have said that actually Visual Basic 6 was far more advanced than today's "web component libraries" when it comes to building GUIs. Most likely this could be even proved: One would only need to build (from scratch) a typical GUI for some business app with web-tech and VB6 against a timer. I know on which tech I would bet delivering results faster. ;-) Not that I'm saying a VB6 app would be a proper replacement for a web app, that's not the point. But the productivity of web tech for application development is just somewhere on the level of 20 years ago. But the down-voters are likely just to young to know that. So the down-votes are likely fine. :-)

Re: A React implementation of Spectrum, Adobe’s design system

#32

Post by tantaman » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:04 PM UTC

Not sure if its because I've been using React for the last 6 years and I've "fallen out of love" or it is actually starting to show its age but...

React, which was once the greatest thing to happen to UI frameworks, now looks like a very leaky abstraction.

The prevalence of `useMemo` and `useCallback` to get around perf issues, `useEffect` to try to interact with event systems outside of React, and `useRef` to save things that don't quite work when persisted in the component's state.

I'm watching Svelte with interest these days. It seems like we're ~1 year away from Svelte, or a framework very much like it (one that moves concerns into the compiler), taking off and revolutionizing things the way React did 7 years ago.

Re: A React implementation of Spectrum, Adobe’s design system

#33

Post by jpsimons » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:06 PM UTC

They lost me at "css-loader". How about just import your components and they style themselves? The whole philosophy of React is JS-first and really, JS-only.

Re: A React implementation of Spectrum, Adobe’s design system

#34

Post by cheez » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:13 PM UTC

tantaman wrote: post #32

Not sure if its because I've been using React for the last 6 years and I've "fallen out of love" or it is actually starting to show its age but... React, which was once the greatest thing to happen to UI frameworks, now looks like a very leaky abstraction. The prevalence of `useMemo` and `useCallback` to get around perf issues, `useEffect` to try to interact with event systems outside of React, and `useRef` to save t…

Interesting, hadn't looked into Svelte. I do agree that something _like_ it can be useful in the future. I currently have my own framework that does this at compile time for non-UI code for performance reasons. Previously, Weblocks did something similar for Lisp IIRC.

Re: A React implementation of Spectrum, Adobe’s design system

#35

Post by pjmlp » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:16 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #22

still_grokking wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only an "issue" of all that "modern" stuff. Many, many years ago I've used Dojo[1] and it's component lib Dijit. It had all that complex widgets in the toolbox. With all the "advantage" stuff like ARIA and internalization. Or you could use Ext, if you could pay it. But than all this "modern 'component' stuff" came form nowhere and you've been back to stone age, where you didn't have even the most basic compone…

That’s how I feel about all of this Javascript stuff after coming from Rails. You mean I have to do [insert basically anything] all on my own, from scratch? But Rails gave me all of that out of the box!

Which is why I am glad that in what concerns Web projects, I keep getting those where SSR does most of the work, with selected pieces of JS for the frontend.

Re: A React implementation of Spectrum, Adobe’s design system

#36

Post by duderific » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

still_grokking wrote: post #31

still_grokking wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only an "issue" of all that "modern" stuff. Many, many years ago I've used Dojo[1] and it's component lib Dijit. It had all that complex widgets in the toolbox. With all the "advantage" stuff like ARIA and internalization. Or you could use Ext, if you could pay it. But than all this "modern 'component' stuff" came form nowhere and you've been back to stone age, where you didn't have even the most basic compone…

It's funny to see facts down-voted by an usually well informed and rational public. :-D Still, facts are facts, no matter how sloppy the wording I've chose. I didn't mean to diminish the effort put into that one incarnation of those so called design systems. I've only mentioned that it's (like all others of the "modern" ones I've seen until now) light years behind what you could have got 10+ years ago. If I would lik…

> But the productivity of web tech for application development is just somewhere on the level of 20 years ago

To be fair, the web was never meant to be an application development platform. It has only become that because of the ubiquity of the web, and the many advantages that web applications confer (multi-platform, instant updates etc.)

Given that, it's not surprising that the web application space continues to evolve as new solutions are tried, iterated and adopted widely, or abandoned.

Re: A React implementation of Spectrum, Adobe’s design system

#37

Post by still_grokking » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:45 PM UTC

duderific wrote: post #36

still_grokking wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny to see facts down-voted by an usually well informed and rational public. :-D Still, facts are facts, no matter how sloppy the wording I've chose. I didn't mean to diminish the effort put into that one incarnation of those so called design systems. I've only mentioned that it's (like all others of the "modern" ones I've seen until now) light years behind what you could have got 10+ years ago. If I would lik…

> But the productivity of web tech for application development is just somewhere on the level of 20 years ago To be fair, the web was never meant to be an application development platform. It has only become that because of the ubiquity of the web, and the many advantages that web applications confer (multi-platform, instant updates etc.) Given that, it's not surprising that the web application space continues to evo…

> the web was never meant to be an application development platform

That! Exactly that!

That's the point. But for some strange reasons people get offended if you tell them this. Maybe because you telling them they're using the wrong tool? Even if it's obvious? ;-)

Re: A React implementation of Spectrum, Adobe’s design system

#38

Post by kcoop » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

ChrisLMB wrote: post #28

Why is there never a simple screenshot of anything? I just wanted to see and example of what Spectrum usually looks like

There are live demos on the individual component pages that should give you what you're looking for.

Re: A React implementation of Spectrum, Adobe’s design system

#39

Post by solidasparagus » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:52 PM UTC

still_grokking wrote: post #31

still_grokking wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only an "issue" of all that "modern" stuff. Many, many years ago I've used Dojo[1] and it's component lib Dijit. It had all that complex widgets in the toolbox. With all the "advantage" stuff like ARIA and internalization. Or you could use Ext, if you could pay it. But than all this "modern 'component' stuff" came form nowhere and you've been back to stone age, where you didn't have even the most basic compone…

It's funny to see facts down-voted by an usually well informed and rational public. :-D Still, facts are facts, no matter how sloppy the wording I've chose. I didn't mean to diminish the effort put into that one incarnation of those so called design systems. I've only mentioned that it's (like all others of the "modern" ones I've seen until now) light years behind what you could have got 10+ years ago. If I would lik…

At least for me I find it very hard to believe your rosy story about Dojo. Are you telling me that 15 years ago you were using a framework that had out-of-the-box support for internationalization that is comparable to what we have today?

Re: A React implementation of Spectrum, Adobe’s design system

#40

Post by cookiecaper » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:12 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #22

still_grokking wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only an "issue" of all that "modern" stuff. Many, many years ago I've used Dojo[1] and it's component lib Dijit. It had all that complex widgets in the toolbox. With all the "advantage" stuff like ARIA and internalization. Or you could use Ext, if you could pay it. But than all this "modern 'component' stuff" came form nowhere and you've been back to stone age, where you didn't have even the most basic compone…

That’s how I feel about all of this Javascript stuff after coming from Rails. You mean I have to do [insert basically anything] all on my own, from scratch? But Rails gave me all of that out of the box!

It's not just Rails, it's basically any semi-modern development toolkit. JavaScript's minimal standard library is one of its biggest flaws and one of the richest sources of exploitation, as exemplified by the left-pad fiasco.

It's not even about the standard lib as much as the culture. Ignoring the fact that it would take years for the changes to become widespread enough to be usable, "pull in 400MB of dependencies for everything, including dependencies of dependencies" is practically a cultural value in the JS scene. It demonstrates why JS is voluntarily practiced primarily by the inexperienced all these years after it established itself as the universal platform.