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The AN-225: How the Cold War created the world's largest airplane

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Re: The AN-225: How the Cold War created the world's largest airplane

#31

Post by baybal2 »

perl4ever wrote: post #26
baybal2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty impressive given that: Type MTOW [kg] ICAO category Antonov An-225 640,000 Heavy Airbus A380-800 575,000 Super and that 225 is made with much less than an ideal aerodynamics, heavy frame, 6 thrust reversers, and oversized control surfaces to accommodate external cargo. Its 6 engines are also prehistoric. D-18T was made with a much more focus on getting the highest take off thrust over cruise speed performance.…

Why is 60% more fuel for 10% more weight "pretty impressive"? I mean, you just listed several reasons why it might be "not bad", but what's your baseline expectation that makes it impressive?

One is a passenger airliner, made with relatively new engines, and material technology, designed with the aim of flying as economically as possible, another is a one of a kind cargo plane, that from the start had, uniquely, no design aim of flying efficiently.

Also, for that 20t per hour, we need to know if it is for the loaded, or a ferry flight.

Re: The AN-225: How the Cold War created the world's largest airplane

#32

Post by evgen »

fit2rule wrote: post #25
clawoo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably because that would push them into the hands of Russia (whether they want it or not).

Who are "they"? Ukraine? Ukraine rejoining the CIS would be good for everyone, except those with an interest in selling arms and fomenting war and disruption in the area. EDIT: downvoters/flaggers: are you censoring the narrative because it doesn't jive with what you've been told, or because you simply cannot tolerate a viewpoint that is counter to the one you have subsumed through authoritarian contact? Because, on…

Given the fact that the only way Russia was able to claw back a bit of Ukrainian territory was through outright invasion I think that the Ukrainian people do not share your misguided belief that it would be good for them to rejoin the CIS. In fact, other than Russian apparatchiks I do not think there is anyone in the world who thinks that this would be a good idea.

Re: The AN-225: How the Cold War created the world's largest airplane

#34

Post by baybal2 »

nuccy wrote: post #27
artpi wrote: post #7

As a political stunt, Polish government has chartered this plane to deliver medical supplies to Poland. What a sight! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnQPcMcGVZ8 However, the costs were insane - around $3 million . Transporting the same amount of cargo with 777 would cost about $1 milion. But the political stunt was priceless.

Maybe it was a political stunt, but actually there are two justification of that. 1) The volume. The masks and other protective gear is volume-demanding cargo, since the overall density including packing (boxes) is low. The Boeing 777 Freighter (777F) has 518m3 of cargo volume on main deck [1], An-225 has 1200m3 [2], so the price per 1m3 of volume is 1930$ and 2500$ respectively (ratio 1.3). 2) The demand and the qua…

Antonov airlines have a much more cheaper, and more available An-124 with 1000m³ useful cargo volume. An even more easily available, and thus cheaper to hire, 747 has 500 to 600m³ volume in different configurations.

Re: The AN-225: How the Cold War created the world's largest airplane

#35

Post by perl4ever »

baybal2 wrote: post #31
perl4ever wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is 60% more fuel for 10% more weight "pretty impressive"? I mean, you just listed several reasons why it might be "not bad", but what's your baseline expectation that makes it impressive?

One is a passenger airliner, made with relatively new engines, and material technology, designed with the aim of flying as economically as possible, another is a one of a kind cargo plane, that from the start had, uniquely, no design aim of flying efficiently. Also, for that 20t per hour, we need to know if it is for the loaded, or a ferry flight.

Yes, that is why it is not surprising if it uses 60% more fuel. My question was why is it impressive? What would you expect given all the things you have mentioned? Twice as much fuel? Ten times? 100 times?

I'm not arguing against your opinion, just asking for context that seemed to be missing.

Re: The AN-225: How the Cold War created the world's largest airplane

#36

Post by baybal2 »

perl4ever wrote: post #35
baybal2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One is a passenger airliner, made with relatively new engines, and material technology, designed with the aim of flying as economically as possible, another is a one of a kind cargo plane, that from the start had, uniquely, no design aim of flying efficiently. Also, for that 20t per hour, we need to know if it is for the loaded, or a ferry flight.

Yes, that is why it is not surprising if it uses 60% more fuel. My question was why is it impressive? What would you expect given all the things you have mentioned? Twice as much fuel? Ten times? 100 times? I'm not arguing against your opinion, just asking for context that seemed to be missing.

> What would you expect given all the things you have mentioned? Twice as much fuel?

Pretty much. Most 4 engine airplanes can fly with just 2, or 1. Take off thrust is few times the cruise thrust an all jet airplanes. In flight, the engines needed to achieve the take off thrust are dead drag, and dead weight.

This is why one of crazy ideas for very early large jet planes was to have parachutable, jettisonable engines, or having RATO on civilian planes.

Re: The AN-225: How the Cold War created the world's largest airplane

#37

Post by kilroy123 »

coldcode wrote: post #5

Whatever its future, that is one monster plane I would love to see fly. Given the 747 has no future now and even the A380 is not that popular and might vanish, we may never see such a huge plane again.

747s are still used for cargo. I saw one fly over my head just yesterday.

Re: The AN-225: How the Cold War created the world's largest airplane

#38

Post by gambiting »

baybal2 wrote: post #34
nuccy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it was a political stunt, but actually there are two justification of that. 1) The volume. The masks and other protective gear is volume-demanding cargo, since the overall density including packing (boxes) is low. The Boeing 777 Freighter (777F) has 518m3 of cargo volume on main deck [1], An-225 has 1200m3 [2], so the price per 1m3 of volume is 1930$ and 2500$ respectively (ratio 1.3). 2) The demand and the qua…

Antonov airlines have a much more cheaper, and more available An-124 with 1000m³ useful cargo volume. An even more easily available, and thus cheaper to hire, 747 has 500 to 600m³ volume in different configurations.

Except again, at the time when this happened everyone raised their prices so that even a single 747 was more than 1/2 price of the antonov. In normal conditions, absolutely, but at the time the demand was at the peak time high. I still think it was a stunt more than anything, but not because of the airplane.

Re: The AN-225: How the Cold War created the world's largest airplane

#39

Post by nuccy »

baybal2 wrote: post #34
nuccy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it was a political stunt, but actually there are two justification of that. 1) The volume. The masks and other protective gear is volume-demanding cargo, since the overall density including packing (boxes) is low. The Boeing 777 Freighter (777F) has 518m3 of cargo volume on main deck [1], An-225 has 1200m3 [2], so the price per 1m3 of volume is 1930$ and 2500$ respectively (ratio 1.3). 2) The demand and the qua…

Antonov airlines have a much more cheaper, and more available An-124 with 1000m³ useful cargo volume. An even more easily available, and thus cheaper to hire, 747 has 500 to 600m³ volume in different configurations.

Yes, An-124 is indeed a good cheaper alternative with comparable capabilities for this kind of cargo, but in March-April it seems there was a high demand on all Antonov fleet [1] plus the PR factor is not playing the last role here.

[1] https://www.dw.com/uk/protydiia-koronavirusu-mriia-y-ruslany... or https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...

Re: The AN-225: How the Cold War created the world's largest airplane

#40

Post by go13 »

baybal2 wrote: post #16
possiblelion wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's the problem, Antonov is based in Kyiv, Ukraine

And that's the problem. The state of Ukraine is just few months away from going bust. If Ukraine falls, EU will have big problems.

I would worry about Russia more. It will go bust sooner or later. If Russia is now a problem for everyone, then it can be not a problem but a disaster.
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