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Robinhood and How to Lose Money

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31–40 of 209 posts

Re: Robinhood and How to Lose Money

#31
post #11

I do not get the appeal of largely gambling with your money on RH instead of just passively investing for the long term. Maybe with some of your money, but not to the extent a lot of people are doing. People want to get rich quick I guess? Even if you do want to do that, why not pick a brokerage which doesn't take as much from you, like IBKR? It's just a surreal situation to me.

The quality of life increase fore mere 8% return is not as much. You'd need much higher returns for many people to make them not use the money now. Losing 1K every month for 5 years for a person who make 200k a year is not much Given the chance to make 100million - billion even if is very little.

Think of it as being a indie VC. Most investment will lose, the ones that gain might make you a lot.

Re: Robinhood and How to Lose Money

#33
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brokerage will only let me buy options in the standard batch of 100, which means to get anything I'm interested in I need to drop $20k, which isn't going to happen. I only want to spend a couple of hundred on long term options ..

> I only want to spend a couple of hundred on long term options Former options market maker. And honest question. Why? Long-term options are tricky because theta and rho, the least intuitive components of the option pricing model, become significant as tenor increases. If you want to take a leveraged bet on the market, a margin account or leveraged ETF is safer.

the market underprices implied volatility on long term options, because it just doesn't know, which is an absolutely awesome.

Re: Robinhood and How to Lose Money

#34
I work in the industry and these kind of articles are always full of bad information about order routing.

* Robinhood order flow is informed and toxic like all other brokerages. Taking the opposing side of all Robinhood trades would cause a broker-dealer to lose all of their capital very quickly.

* The "bad prices" the "novices" are trading at, are in fact, the same market price that all participants trade at (at or inside the bid/offer). If the prices were obviously bad, there is free money available to the author here by simply quoting inside the spread.

* Recall that the majority of trades on lit exchanges are from professional or institutional investors. For this reason, spreads are wide because providing liquidity means you will likely get run over. Robinhood orders do not exhibit as much short term momentum, and so trading against them is safer for broker-dealers because there is less risk. This risk profile is valuable, and you might wonder what's a fair way to allocate that value. One option is to not capture it, and send all Robinhood orders directly to the market. The author implies this makes sense (a gravy-free approach), but it does not, the retail customer actually ends up worse off. Another option, the one that occurs in practice now is for the value to get split between the counterparty taking on risk (Citadel, in the form of less toxicity on orders), the customer (the Robinhood client, in the form of price improvement over the national bid/offer), and Robinhood themselves for sourcing the flow (a commission or payment).

Re: Robinhood and How to Lose Money

#35

I work in the industry and these kind of articles are always full of bad information about order routing. * Robinhood order flow is informed and toxic like all other brokerages. Taking the opposing side of all Robinhood trades would cause a broker-dealer to lose all of their capital very quickly. * The "bad prices" the "novices" are trading at, are in fact, the same market price that all participants trade at (at or…

Would you mind explaining a few of those terms? "Informed" and "toxic", specifically.

Re: Robinhood and How to Lose Money

#36
> In the first three months of 2020 ... [Robinhood users] also bought and sold 88 times as many risky options contracts as Schwab customers, relative to the average account size

> And let’s remember that options are far more illiquid and opaque than standard equities.

Okay, first of all the growth of the options market is AMAZING, and their utility increases the more liquid the market is.

So massive new groups of traders with a low barrier of entry make options much more liquid, and this is amazing.

There used to only be one series of options that expired once per quarter and had 5 cent ($5) bid and ask spreads, and strikes only every $5 or $10 dollars.

Now there are 20 series trading at once and pretty much all indice constituent companies, let alone the index itself, alongside strikes every $1 - $2.5 dollars, even $.50 cents sometimes.

There are so many strategies that were unviable because the spreads were too wide, the strikes were too few and far between, and the commissions structure was prohibitive.

That's all changed now, and that's the other perspective.

Robinhood is also still handicapping users, as the regulations allow for much greater amounts of leverage and margin capabilities, which Robinhood doesn't offer yet, which TD Ameritrade and others have offered all along. So all the surprise and angst directed at Robinhood is as ignorant as the speculators that you are worried about.

This is an education problem, not an access problem. They are mutually exclusive.

To the people not using options for what they were made for:

"Just avoid holding it in that way." - Steve Jobs

Re: Robinhood and How to Lose Money

#37

Robinhood was an absolute game changer for me. Outside of my 401k (and a Viacom stock my mom bought me 20+ years ago to teach me about the stock market), my investment portfolio was nil. I now maintain a growing but conservative portfolio of stocks thanks partly to the frictionless UX of Robinhood - but, primarily, to the addition of fractional shares. To pay $1500 for a share of TSLA? When I could put that precious…

Having not used it, what is special about Robinhood? Online Trading platforms have been around since the 90s. Maybe earlier, but I was seeing them then. There wasn't much friction back then, other than needing to be physically located at home to have an internet connection (no wifi or mobile).

Re: Robinhood and How to Lose Money

#38
post #22
post #11

I do not get the appeal of largely gambling with your money on RH instead of just passively investing for the long term. Maybe with some of your money, but not to the extent a lot of people are doing. People want to get rich quick I guess? Even if you do want to do that, why not pick a brokerage which doesn't take as much from you, like IBKR? It's just a surreal situation to me.

Adrenaline? Same motivation as gambling. You can enjoy the hope of the possibility of wealth. Steady investment will never give you that. Of course, this involves a heavy dose of self-delusion, also popular these days.

> Steady investment will never give you that.

Sure it does. I've seen lower middle class people become millionaires that way. Of course, one needs the discipline to not succumb to spending it on a car/house/divorce, and the intestinal fortitude to not panic sell when the market tanks.

Re: Robinhood and How to Lose Money

#39

> In the first three months of 2020 ... [Robinhood users] also bought and sold 88 times as many risky options contracts as Schwab customers, relative to the average account size > And let’s remember that options are far more illiquid and opaque than standard equities. Okay, first of all the growth of the options market is AMAZING, and their utility increases the more liquid the market is. So massive new groups of tra…

> new groups of traders with a low barrier of entry make options much more liquid

Are you claiming Robinhood users are responsible for a significant fraction of option market liquidity over the past year? Because that’s categorically wrong.

Re: Robinhood and How to Lose Money

#40
post #31
post #11

I do not get the appeal of largely gambling with your money on RH instead of just passively investing for the long term. Maybe with some of your money, but not to the extent a lot of people are doing. People want to get rich quick I guess? Even if you do want to do that, why not pick a brokerage which doesn't take as much from you, like IBKR? It's just a surreal situation to me.

The quality of life increase fore mere 8% return is not as much. You'd need much higher returns for many people to make them not use the money now. Losing 1K every month for 5 years for a person who make 200k a year is not much Given the chance to make 100million - billion even if is very little. Think of it as being a indie VC. Most investment will lose, the ones that gain might make you a lot.

Your odds are still likely better than lottery tickets.
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