Shelly – a programming language to draw in the browser • Hacker News Board

Re: Shelly – a programming language to draw in the browser

#31

Post by adamw1pl » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:43 AM UTC

shadykiller wrote: post #12

This is awesome !! Are there any cool drawings I can take inspiration from ?

We'll be posting some on our twitter (https://twitter.com/shelly_dot_dev) for a start. Plus we'll be expanding the tutorial/help area. Stay tuned :)

Re: Shelly – a programming language to draw in the browser

#32

Post by bshimmin » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:45 AM UTC

This looks really great and obviously brings back lots of happy memories!

One little thing - is the opacity scale the wrong way round? I would expect high opacity to mean it's not very transparent and low opacity to mean it's mostly transparent.

Re: Shelly – a programming language to draw in the browser

#33

Post by adamw1pl » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 12:17 PM UTC

bshimmin wrote: post #32

This looks really great and obviously brings back lots of happy memories! One little thing - is the opacity scale the wrong way round? I would expect high opacity to mean it's not very transparent and low opacity to mean it's mostly transparent.

Yes, you are right! Funny how this went unnoticed for so long ;) Fixed now.

Re: Shelly – a programming language to draw in the browser

#34

Post by agigao » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 12:20 PM UTC

metrokoi wrote: post #19

agigao wrote: post #15

Can we please stop calling every new set of rules “a programming language”?

It would be more accurate to call this a programming based drawing tool or a learning tool. The thing that makes this unique is the features and being able to draw in the browser, not the actual language or rules itself.

Thanks for the right wording.

Yeah, the tool is fine, I got nothing against it, just our attitude makes our world more cluttered and fragmented, we lost the way to communicate in programming world at large.

The Mess We're In - Joe Armstrong - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKXe3HUG2l4

Re: Shelly – a programming language to draw in the browser

#35

Post by mannschott » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

What a blast from the past! Logo was my first exposure to programming in elementary school (1981-1986). This was fun to play with and the tutorial is well done. I was surprised by the lack of any kind of "run" button, but I think this was a good choice for this kind of learning environment. Neat!

Re: Shelly – a programming language to draw in the browser

#36

Post by BiteCode_dev » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

I'll make the mandatory comment about how this is a case typically better served by a good library than a DSL.

This language is very niche, it will never get good support, tooling, doc, and maintenance.

I know making languages are fun, but unless fun is the main goal and adoption is not, craft a good lib with a clean and simple API.

Adopting this DSL would not be reasonable on the long run.

Re: Shelly – a programming language to draw in the browser

#37

Post by thosakwe » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:33 PM UTC

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #36

I'll make the mandatory comment about how this is a case typically better served by a good library than a DSL. This language is very niche, it will never get good support, tooling, doc, and maintenance. I know making languages are fun, but unless fun is the main goal and adoption is not, craft a good lib with a clean and simple API. Adopting this DSL would not be reasonable on the long run.

Comments like these are absolutely useless and contribute nothing to the conversation at all. There are benefits making a language, and people's goal doesn't always have to be "get as many people to use it as possible."

Re: Shelly – a programming language to draw in the browser

#38

Post by richk449 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

adamw1pl wrote: post #29

kwasson wrote: post #26

Shelly looks cool, thanks. There was a discussion on HN a few years back about Seymour Papert’s Mindstorms: Children, Computers, and Powerful Ideas (1980), which may be relevant if you're interested in the history of Turtle and Logo. [1] I've been collecting resources for self-directed programming/learning that kids can use for at-home, project-based learning. Some family members are looking for ideas for their child…

Thanks! Would be great to get feedback once you get an occasion. The tutorial is only a start for what we are planning, so this is an area we'd like to work on next. Hence any pointers or ideas are welcome :)

Nicely done tool/site. Is there a play button to make the turtle start at the beginning and follow the path? Or pause and speed commands? I'm expecting that watching a turtle move is going to be key to getting my son into this.

Re: Shelly – a programming language to draw in the browser

#39

Post by grugagag » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 3:12 PM UTC

This is really fun, thanks for sharing this with the world. Kids should find this so I'd try to make sure schools/teachers find out about your product. Thanks

Re: Shelly – a programming language to draw in the browser

#40

Post by dahart » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 3:19 PM UTC

agigao wrote: post #34

metrokoi wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be more accurate to call this a programming based drawing tool or a learning tool. The thing that makes this unique is the features and being able to draw in the browser, not the actual language or rules itself.

Thanks for the right wording. Yeah, the tool is fine, I got nothing against it, just our attitude makes our world more cluttered and fragmented, we lost the way to communicate in programming world at large. The Mess We're In - Joe Armstrong - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKXe3HUG2l4

I'm not sure I understand your objection. Shelly is a programming language, inspired by Logo, and it also comes with a browser based environment.

Isn't half of the communication problem you're referring to demanding that others use words the way you want them to, as opposed to listening, understanding that language is fluid, and trying to hear what they're saying instead of tell them they're wrong?