Unidentified Federal Law Enforcement Detaining Protestors Without Explanation • Hacker News Board

Re: Unidentified Federal Law Enforcement Detaining Protestors Without Explanation

#31

Post by dfraser992 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:26 AM UTC

Reddit was all over that video the other day. The general consensus was that it looked more like an extraction of an undercover operative (dressed all in black! with only the eyes visible!). That seems plausible to me because of how cooperative the guy in black is, the efficiency of the whole thing, the fact that none of the other people in the area/video seemed to know who the guy was (they had to ask him his name, etc).

And the general theory that America is some sort of police state. Undercover operators during a protest (of any sort) is an entirely logical supposition. No, it is not a blatant one; I am not being dramatic. However, the current social turmoil is revealing the oft-ignored dark side of the police to "white America" and I think that is a good thing.

I live in the UK now and the atmosphere in general here is different, I've interacted with police a few times, and no issues - but I am white. If you're in London and black... it is different. Yes, there have been stories of undercover police doing all sorts of shite with respect to environmental protesters aka "terrorists"... and lists of undesirables aka leftists...

But even then, it is still nothing like America. This is just my experience and gut feeling - the Robert Peel theory of policing still lives on here - in the States, the theory of policing is more like police are the occupying force. Cutting the budgets of police departments will help go a long way towards controlling the problem - here, the police have a limited budget (and manpower) and so have to be smart in not wasting money and dealing with avoidable hassles.

Re: Unidentified Federal Law Enforcement Detaining Protestors Without Explanation

#32

Post by blisseyGo » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:29 AM UTC

xxpor wrote: post #28

mtgp1000 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point people become enough of a liability that we collectively as a society have authorized the restriction of their rights. This is a literally subversive movement. I'm not exaggerating or choosing a side. Watch the livestreams yourself - these people explicitly seek to subvert, dismantle, and replace modern "power structures" (intentionally left vague). Whether you agree with what these people think they're…

Give me a break. These aren't the Bolsheviks fighting the white army. The dude in the video was never told where he was or why he was arrested. He didn't know he was in the federal courthouse until after he was released. These guys don't even have badges ffs. If someone shot these guys, I don't see how that wouldn't be considered self-defense. Let's see what DHS is complaining about: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/…

> A lot of broken windows, graffiti and fireworks.

Those are federal property and feds have full rights to do this. Also a lot of people who are being arrested are from another state. That's been the case for at least 45 days now. There's a point where the feds have to step in since the local people in that area are being terrorized. I have friends in that area and they are all planing to move out of the city because the Mayor, DA and Governor have been useless for a long time.

Re: Unidentified Federal Law Enforcement Detaining Protestors Without Explanation

#33

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:31 AM UTC

blisseyGo wrote: post #30

jwilber wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say, “what’s really happening” and then follow up with generalizing all local governments as the same and all protestors as rioters, so I’ll assume your post isn’t very sincere. But I’d like a sincere response: What difference does it make what they did if they were apprehended by unidentifiable officers? That’s the topic at hand - the fact that police are apprehending people in ways that are not identifiably dif…

> all protestors as rioters That's not what I meant when I said: rioters (not the protestors) I meant to say that a few violent people are sneaking into the protestors. By "not the protestors", I meant "I am not referring to the protestors". By local government, I meant the mayor, the governor and the DA. Portland, Chicago has been this way for a long time.

You still haven’t responded to the strongest part of the argument here:

I’m what ways do you believe any of this justifies kidnapping people?

Re: Unidentified Federal Law Enforcement Detaining Protestors Without Explanation

#34

Post by dfraser992 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:31 AM UTC

blisseyGo wrote: post #26

gruez wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People sharing videos of this share either selectively edited videos without context OR they only share the ending part where they are arrested and not the part where they were instigating violence in the peaceful protests. I'm not sure the video that you've linked is any better. It's basically someone dismissing it saying they were bad people who deserved it. It adds zero information.

Here's one example where the dude who got arrested has a helmet on. Why's that needed in peaceful protests? Also note the thing he has on his left side. That's an attachment to break car windows: https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1283452585945583618

And that's the video were the whole incident seems suspicious - see my comment. An undercover op would logically have equipment for stirring up trouble / doing damage if part of his remit was to be a "fifth columnist". Yeah, that is how much I trust American authorities in general, especially the right wing nutjobs taking over now.

Re: Unidentified Federal Law Enforcement Detaining Protestors Without Explanation

#35

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:32 AM UTC

mtgp1000 wrote: post #20

xxpor wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if I agree with your assessment, none of this excuses using unmarked vehicles, unmarked uniforms and not explaining themselves.

At some point people become enough of a liability that we collectively as a society have authorized the restriction of their rights. This is a literally subversive movement. I'm not exaggerating or choosing a side. Watch the livestreams yourself - these people explicitly seek to subvert, dismantle, and replace modern "power structures" (intentionally left vague). Whether you agree with what these people think they're…

We have safeguards in place already that don’t require law enforcement kidnapping people.

Re: Unidentified Federal Law Enforcement Detaining Protestors Without Explanation

#36

Post by d3nj4l » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:32 AM UTC

blisseyGo wrote: post #10

darksaints wrote: post #3

This sort of thing is terrifying to me. I've read a little bit about the Stasi, and back then the whole idea behind it seemed too absurd to believe. Now we're living it. If you question or protest the status quo, you are literally putting your life in danger.

These people are not protestors. There were rioters who would mix in with the protestors and then start violence. Protestors don't show up dressed in all black with a helmet and baseball bat. They have also been allowed to throw bricks, molotovs, bats etc on law enforcement and people. They are destroying the peaceful protests to turn them into violence. Local law enforcement hasn't been doing anything to stop it bec…

So you believe the feds should have the right to unilaterally abduct people off the street without reasonable cause, detain them for as long as they please before releasing them without making any record of the arrest or explaining the reason for the arrest?

Re: Unidentified Federal Law Enforcement Detaining Protestors Without Explanation

#37

Post by mindslight » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:32 AM UTC

blisseyGo wrote: post #26

gruez wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People sharing videos of this share either selectively edited videos without context OR they only share the ending part where they are arrested and not the part where they were instigating violence in the peaceful protests. I'm not sure the video that you've linked is any better. It's basically someone dismissing it saying they were bad people who deserved it. It adds zero information.

Here's one example where the dude who got arrested has a helmet on. Why's that needed in peaceful protests? Also note the thing he has on his left side. That's an attachment to break car windows: https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1283452585945583618

Uh, the thugs doing the kidnapping also have helmets on so that indicates nothing whatsoever. And the only "thing" I can see looks like a regular carabiner.

Re: Unidentified Federal Law Enforcement Detaining Protestors Without Explanation

#38

Post by dfraser992 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:35 AM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #21

blisseyGo wrote: post #9

What's really happening is that these rioters (not the protestors) are watched trying to instigate violence at the protests and when they leave the area, they get arrested. This is because the local government has been absolutely useless at doing their job at stopping the rioting. Start at 9:30 timestamp: https://youtu.be/3ptD6koTknw?t=570 People sharing videos of this share either selectively edited videos without c…

None of what you said matters and here's why. It doesn't matter who they're arresting and for what reason. They should announce who they are, using marked vehicles and properly arrest them if they have actually committed a crime. Because otherwise, what's stopping someone from dressing up in military garb and straight up abducting someone? How do you know they're even part of the federal law enforcement and not actua…

Exactly. If the "authorities" had any integrity, they'd be following the "process" and that would give them at least a fig leaf of legitimacy. Not sure why you're getting downvoted, but looking at these growing comments, I think there is a brigade going on to influence the discussion.

Re: Unidentified Federal Law Enforcement Detaining Protestors Without Explanation

#39

Post by gruez » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:37 AM UTC

blisseyGo wrote: post #26

gruez wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People sharing videos of this share either selectively edited videos without context OR they only share the ending part where they are arrested and not the part where they were instigating violence in the peaceful protests. I'm not sure the video that you've linked is any better. It's basically someone dismissing it saying they were bad people who deserved it. It adds zero information.

Here's one example where the dude who got arrested has a helmet on. Why's that needed in peaceful protests? Also note the thing he has on his left side. That's an attachment to break car windows: https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1283452585945583618

If we're going to continue the chain of speculation without providing additional evidence...

> the dude who got arrested has a helmet on. Why's that needed in peaceful protests?

Same reason why people wear helmets when riding a bike: even if they're not intending on smashing their head, accidents happen, so it's better to be protected. Protests do occasionally turn violent, so that's not too unreasonable. Also keep in mind there are protesters that open carry assault rifles, so in comparison a helmet us relatively tame.

>That's an attachment to break car windows:

It looks like a black stick to me? What's it supposed to be?

Re: Unidentified Federal Law Enforcement Detaining Protestors Without Explanation

#40

Post by d3nj4l » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:38 AM UTC

blisseyGo wrote: post #23

ModernMech wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fta: “interviews conducted by OPB show officers are also detaining people on Portland streets who aren’t near federal property, nor is it clear that all of the people being arrested have engaged in criminal activity. Demonstrators like O’Shea and Pettibone said they think they were targeted by federal officers for simply wearing black clothing in the area of the demonstration.“

> who aren’t near federal property, nor is it clear that all of the people being arrested have engaged in criminal activity That's misleading. They are being recorded while they are being violent within the peaceful protests. They are being arrested when they leave because Feds don't want to disrupt the peaceful protests - so they arrest them when they leave the area. I have watched a few videos of this happening and…

How do you know the videos you've watched (and you've only posted one) are representative of every arrest? The OPB has interviewed protestors to find out, and they're a reputable, local news organisation. Why should anybody take your word for it over theirs?