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Be More Unlikeable

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Re: Be More Unlikeable

#31

Post by BlahGod420 »

hrktb wrote: post #5

Money quote: > Personally, I've long idolized Steve Jobs and Elon Musk. But most of our heroes got to where they are by being unlikeable, not likable. I fundamentally disagree with that view of being an asshole as an important part of success, but I also feel it has been rehashed an incredible amount of times already. A slightly different take on this is the "don't rock the boat" mentality. This is usually a counter…

> our heroes got to where they are by being unlikeable, not likable.

They really didn't though. At the most, their likability is insignificant. I'm reading the Walter Isaacson biography on Steve Jobs and I can tell you: Yes, he was annoying as fuck, but that's not the reason he was successful. If anything, it hindered him repeatedly. He got to where he is because he recognized the genius of Wozniak and knew to push in a way that Wozniak never would have (and not because he didn't possess the talent, but because Wozniak chose not to take leadership roles; it's something his father taught him and something he decided for himself).

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#32

Post by kaiju0 »

hrktb wrote: post #5

Money quote: > Personally, I've long idolized Steve Jobs and Elon Musk. But most of our heroes got to where they are by being unlikeable, not likable. I fundamentally disagree with that view of being an asshole as an important part of success, but I also feel it has been rehashed an incredible amount of times already. A slightly different take on this is the "don't rock the boat" mentality. This is usually a counter…

You only get to be a jerk if you are the boss.

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#33

Post by microcolonel »

hrktb wrote: post #5

Money quote: > Personally, I've long idolized Steve Jobs and Elon Musk. But most of our heroes got to where they are by being unlikeable, not likable. I fundamentally disagree with that view of being an asshole as an important part of success, but I also feel it has been rehashed an incredible amount of times already. A slightly different take on this is the "don't rock the boat" mentality. This is usually a counter…

I think there's a difference between being a jerk for no reason, and just being disagreeable in situations where you genuinely disagree. Steve Jobs had genuine disagreements between his vision and the people around him, some of his disagreements were productive, and some of them were surely pointless, but some of those productive and difficult disagreements were doubtless a component of his success.

Steve was also a bit of a dirtbag though, if what I've heard about his relationship with his daughter is correct; though probably there's also more to that than we are meant to know.

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#34

Post by ny2ko »

ngngngng wrote: post #8
ny2ko wrote: post #3

The only grime I have to pick with this article is it's applicability to all groups. The ability to behave as a jerk or be unlikeable without experiencing retaliation (not simply push back) is a privilege that a lot of underrepresented minorities don't have

> underrepresented minorities To paraphrase Brene Brown, any conversation on privilege that excludes class is bullshit. The ability to be unlikable without it ruining your life (never mind using it to your advantage) is largely a privilege of class. No one in 2020 is immune to being "cancelled". But if you have money, it won't ruin your life.

Fair enough. I was thinking on it from a work perspective and did make an incorrect assumption that the vast majority of people in the meeting rooms were in similar classes

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#35

Post by andreygrehov »

I _think_ that being unlikeable is a side effect of having a strong opinion that many people do not agree with. Simply being an asshole won't help. But if you have a goal, if you strongly believe in that goal despite everyone else telling you to stop, then yes, be an asshole and tell them all to f*ck off.

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#36

Post by uberman »

Minor49er wrote: post #20
uberman wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(IMHO) White men get away with being authoritarian jerks in much larger numbers than other categories. This is not to say that all white men are jerks or that some who are are not also called out as such. Nor is this a suggestion that being an authoritarian jerk and being respected for it or getting away with it or given a pass for it is exclusive to white men.

This is going to be a tough claim to prove

I can accept that. I edited my post to indicate that it is my opinion.

That said, I think (again my opinion) that there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the behaviors that are deemed to be bold, authoritative, disruptive and direct even bordering on hostile when displayed by men in the workplace are tolerated or even rewarded while such behavior displayed by women are not.

"He" will be the tolerated jerk, the lone wolf who plays be his own rules and get things done. "She" will be the office bitch who no one wants to work with. Again my opinion based on experience working with fortune 100 companies, public and private universities, and at a half-dozen startups.

Edited to Add:

I did a quick search and found this:

"Untangling the relationship between gender and leadership"

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/GM-09-20...

I'm imagine there are counter examples, but this study seems to confirm my personal observations:

"women leaders who go against the typical gender stereotype might be penalized"

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#37

Post by PragmaticPulp »

For those who can't read the article (site is crushed under the load): The article is about resisting pressure to cave to the status quo. It's not about being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk.

I agree with the general message (don't unquestioningly accept the status quo just because you want to be liked). I disagree with the idea that being a pioneer in your field will necessarily make you disliked. If anything, the society of 2020 reveres people who go against the status quo in a push to innovate, even if they fail.

The trap is when people confuse being a jerk with being successful. Or when they assume that being creative or successful is a license to be a jerk. Neither are true. People like Steve Jobs are the exception, not the rule. If you want to accomplish anything in a modern organization, you need to make an effort to be at least somewhat friendly. This doesn't mean you should become a pushover, a yes-person, or otherwise flatter people around it. It does mean that you need to listen, demonstrate mutual respect for others, and behave in a professional manner.

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#38

Post by Lammy »

Minor49er wrote: post #20
uberman wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(IMHO) White men get away with being authoritarian jerks in much larger numbers than other categories. This is not to say that all white men are jerks or that some who are are not also called out as such. Nor is this a suggestion that being an authoritarian jerk and being respected for it or getting away with it or given a pass for it is exclusive to white men.

This is going to be a tough claim to prove

This is an area where the concepts of 'proof' and 'truth' don't really apply since any two people observe fundamentally different realities. It's not about bashing each other over the head until one of us agrees the other was correct about the One True Reality all along, but about sharing our observed worlds with each other so we can build societal systems that serve everyone.

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#39

Post by jbay808 »

CEO of a company that I used to work at is one of the most likeable people I've ever met. He spoke softly and gently with sage wisdom, kindness, and careful consideration. And when he wanted something done it got done, and when he suggested an idea, people listened.

There's more than one way.

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#40

Post by fizixer »

MrLeap wrote: post #2

It's 404ing for now, so maybe the contents actually defy the title when I finally will get to RTFA. I have to say, I'm amused by a lot of the contrarian articles showing up on HN recently. There seems to be a growing tendency to shed a lot of the saccharine optimism of the last decade. "Work on unimportant problems" "Be more unlikeable" "How to cope with " "Why you should kill your parents" I wonder if these are port…

Postmodernism 2.0
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