A Land of Monopolists: From Portable Toilets to Mixed Martial Arts • Hacker News Board

Re: A Land of Monopolists: From Portable Toilets to Mixed Martial Arts

#31

Post by dataqat » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

floor2 wrote: post #14

pjc50 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individual homeownership still carries a bunch of tax incentives in most places; I'm not aware of anywhere mega-landlord companies have popped up (although there are a few mega-landlord individuals, usually heavily leveraged).

Does it? The major tax overhaul a couple years ago capped the property tax deduction at a low enough level (while increasing the standard exemption) that, at least in high-property tax jurisdictions, there is no benefit to being a homeowner. I pay something in the range of $15k-$20k in property taxes and mortgage interest, but receive zero deduction/exemption on my federal taxes for it.

If in the US, property tax got lumped in with state income tax to create a cap where property tax benefit went away for a lot of people, but the mortgage interest deduction is still there, no (on the first $750,000)?

Re: A Land of Monopolists: From Portable Toilets to Mixed Martial Arts

#32

Post by peter_d_sherman » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

>"He observed that “68% of private equity buyouts are add-ons from previous acquisitions,” which is to say that most acquisitions by private equity firms are attempts to expand market power for companies they already own. A quarter of these acquisitions, in fact, are “tied to an investment with at least five add-ons.” Given that there are thousands of private equity firms making transactions every year, that’s a lot of attempts to increase market power."

[...]

"Doing a roll-up is designed to take advantage of how capital markets value bigger companies versus small ones, or what is called multiple expansion.

Buying a small family owned business for three to four times its cash flow

(or what is known in annoying accounting-speak as earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization, abbreviated as EBITDA), putting it into a conglomerate that financiers then call a ‘platform’ or ‘market leader’, means you can often

sell the much bigger company for eight to ten times that cash flow later on."

My comments:

Buy low, sell high...

Makes sense from a pure business perspective...

Re: A Land of Monopolists: From Portable Toilets to Mixed Martial Arts

#33

Post by maxsilver » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:02 PM UTC

hash872 wrote: post #22

LatteLazy wrote: post #18

Like so many articles in this space, there is a lot of assumption, claims without evidence and vague assertions. The author doesn't seem to know what Predatory Pricing is. He also dismisses economics of scale as an accounting fiddle. I sympathetize with his general position (as life gets complex, barriers to entry rise and markets of many small companies are replaced by one's of a few big companies. But then he gets…

If you're not broadly familiar with Matt Stoller- he's an ideologue. He is a far, far leftist on economic issues. >He also dismisses economics of scale as an accounting fiddle He proposed on Twitter to make bulk discounting illegal for the entire US economy, on the theory that any kind of discounting is just predatory pricing. In other words, whether you buy 1 computer server or 10,000, 2 avocados or 2 million, the p…

> He proposed on Twitter to make bulk discounting illegal for the entire US economy, on the theory that any kind of discounting is just predatory pricing.

Is this a real thing? I follow Stoller on Twitter, and have never heard him say anything like that. Just that predatory pricing is often snuck in under the guise of "discounting" (which is true).

He's definitely a centrist on economic policy, which turns a lot of people away (most Americans have never heard of a centrist view of any policy of any kind, and most Americans are far more conservative than they'd ever actually admit to). But nothing about him seems ideologue-ish, and he's certainly not anywhere near left-wing on economic policy.

Re: A Land of Monopolists: From Portable Toilets to Mixed Martial Arts

#34

Post by justaguyhere » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:04 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #26

justaguyhere wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forget the name, but there was one company that bought properties throughout the US after the 2008 market crash - we are talking about hundreds of thousands of properties here, massive scale. I remember (2014 or so) looking for apartments in some places in NYC - I went to multiple buildings before it struck me that they were all owned by the same company. I've been a renter all my life and the situation is not good…

> I don't care if the super rich have mega mansions and million dollar cars. It is when they start monopolizing essential resources like water, housing etc that it becomes a serious issue. If you're a billionaire, you quickly run out of mansions and cars to buy for yourself and your money has to go somewhere . This is why you hear statements like "billionaires shouldn't exist" - mass acquisitions are an obvious use o…

Water monopoly is a problem. Shitty companies like Nestle are prime examples. There are private corporations thinking of all kinds of ways to control rivers and even ground water. With water shortages being predicted all over the world, this doesn't look good. It takes a special kind of evil to control something as basic as water.

Re: A Land of Monopolists: From Portable Toilets to Mixed Martial Arts

#35

Post by greenonions » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

maxsilver wrote: post #33

hash872 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're not broadly familiar with Matt Stoller- he's an ideologue. He is a far, far leftist on economic issues. >He also dismisses economics of scale as an accounting fiddle He proposed on Twitter to make bulk discounting illegal for the entire US economy, on the theory that any kind of discounting is just predatory pricing. In other words, whether you buy 1 computer server or 10,000, 2 avocados or 2 million, the p…

> He proposed on Twitter to make bulk discounting illegal for the entire US economy, on the theory that any kind of discounting is just predatory pricing. Is this a real thing? I follow Stoller on Twitter, and have never heard him say anything like that. Just that predatory pricing is often snuck in under the guise of "discounting" (which is true). He's definitely a centrist on economic policy, which turns a lot of p…

Could you provide any example where discounting was actually proved to be predatory pricing?

How is discounting not a valid method of pricing?

Re: A Land of Monopolists: From Portable Toilets to Mixed Martial Arts

#36

Post by maxsilver » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

greenonions wrote: post #35

maxsilver wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He proposed on Twitter to make bulk discounting illegal for the entire US economy, on the theory that any kind of discounting is just predatory pricing. Is this a real thing? I follow Stoller on Twitter, and have never heard him say anything like that. Just that predatory pricing is often snuck in under the guise of "discounting" (which is true). He's definitely a centrist on economic policy, which turns a lot of p…

Could you provide any example where discounting was actually proved to be predatory pricing? How is discounting not a valid method of pricing?

Flooding a market with below-cost goods (or "discounts"), to drive out competitors so that you can generate a monopoly, is predatory pricing -- literally by textbook definition. It's also illegal, it is a direct violation of US federal anti-trust law.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...

No one is against "discounting" (as in, coupons for Cheerios, or discounts for bulk orders). But illegal predatory pricing is often passed through the economy under the disguise of "a discount", and it's correct for people to challenge that.

Re: A Land of Monopolists: From Portable Toilets to Mixed Martial Arts

#37

Post by hash872 » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:17 PM UTC

maxsilver wrote: post #33

hash872 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're not broadly familiar with Matt Stoller- he's an ideologue. He is a far, far leftist on economic issues. >He also dismisses economics of scale as an accounting fiddle He proposed on Twitter to make bulk discounting illegal for the entire US economy, on the theory that any kind of discounting is just predatory pricing. In other words, whether you buy 1 computer server or 10,000, 2 avocados or 2 million, the p…

> He proposed on Twitter to make bulk discounting illegal for the entire US economy, on the theory that any kind of discounting is just predatory pricing. Is this a real thing? I follow Stoller on Twitter, and have never heard him say anything like that. Just that predatory pricing is often snuck in under the guise of "discounting" (which is true). He's definitely a centrist on economic policy, which turns a lot of p…

I found 3 examples just using Twitter advanced search and 'discounts'.

The second paragraph is just word games, I see this argument from the left a lot. The perspective of non-Americans on US internal economic policy is irrelevant as they can't vote here- he's a far leftist for the US, and that's all that matters. (Actually he would be on the Corbyn left even for Europe)

Re: A Land of Monopolists: From Portable Toilets to Mixed Martial Arts

#38

Post by greenonions » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:20 PM UTC

maxsilver wrote: post #36

greenonions wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you provide any example where discounting was actually proved to be predatory pricing? How is discounting not a valid method of pricing?

Flooding a market with below-cost goods (or "discounts"), to drive out competitors so that you can generate a monopoly, is predatory pricing -- literally by textbook definition. It's also illegal, it is a direct violation of US federal anti-trust law. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a... No one is against "discounting" (as in, coupons for Cheerios, or discounts for bulk orders). But illegal…

It most certainly is illegal, but can you find a definitive example of such behavior?

It's theoretically a highly illegal and unethical thing to do, but in reality, monopoly control of a market is highly unlikely.

Re: A Land of Monopolists: From Portable Toilets to Mixed Martial Arts

#39

Post by maxsilver » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:23 PM UTC

greenonions wrote: post #38

maxsilver wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flooding a market with below-cost goods (or "discounts"), to drive out competitors so that you can generate a monopoly, is predatory pricing -- literally by textbook definition. It's also illegal, it is a direct violation of US federal anti-trust law. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a... No one is against "discounting" (as in, coupons for Cheerios, or discounts for bulk orders). But illegal…

It most certainly is illegal, but can you find a definitive example of such behavior? It's theoretically a highly illegal and unethical thing to do, but in reality, monopoly control of a market is highly unlikely.

I mean, one textbook example of that behaviour is late-90's-Microsoft --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....

Amazon's behaviour today is another example of it, but since we haven't really enforced any anti-trust laws in the past decade, it would be easy for someone to claim Amazon "doesn't count".

Re: A Land of Monopolists: From Portable Toilets to Mixed Martial Arts

#40

Post by diffrinse » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:25 PM UTC

MoomerLoom wrote: post #3

ideals wrote: post #2

2 things I got out of this, first is how I see the same names showing up multiple times. KKR and Platinum Equity seem to have a niche for obscure monopolies. And also that is seems to be a viable strategy to start a port-a-john business to be acquired by Platinum Equity's United Site Services port-a-john empire. Also Dana White hasn't been run out of town yet and everyday I wonder how that is still possible.

The cult of JRE fans helped give its popularity another boost, but in reality, what other league are you going to watch save a different fight sport like boxing? People like to huddle around the cooler and focus on one league (See: NFL, MLB, NBA). That's not to say WNBA or XFL don't exist, but think about the multiplier of games you'd have to keep track of with your friends for all of them. Natural entertainment mono…

Brock Lesnar is what broke UFC through. Then Ronda Rousey and Conor McGregor gave us the current era we have today.