Google Search Upgrades Make It Harder for Websites to Win Traffic • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Search Upgrades Make It Harder for Websites to Win Traffic

#31

Post by impalallama » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 1:51 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #16

mattkevan wrote: post #7

For all the tiny violins that could be played about how life is getting harder for SEO practitioners, this marks a fundamental and very unwelcome change in the Web. Google have decided that it’s more profitable to keep people on its own site than redirecting them elsewhere, a big change in its contract. Before, it was ‘structure your site well and we’ll send you traffic’. Now it’s becoming, ‘structure your site well…

What kinds of searches are you thinking about? I like that I can google for the weather or Dr. Fauci's age and get an answer directly. The results page always has links if I care to dig deeper but 99% of the time I'd rather get the answer and move on.

>Mike Moloney runs FilterGrade, a marketplace for custom filters photographers use to edit their work. He gets most of his traffic from articles on his website, such as lens reviews and camera-related top 10 lists. Recently, he noticed Google pulling photos and text straight off the site and showing it at the top of search results. There’s a link to Moloney’s company at the bottom of the section, but clicking on any of the photos brings the searcher to another Google page full of shopping ads for film stock. None of these ads are related to, or benefit, FilterGrade -- unless Moloney chooses to pay Google for placement.

Directly from the article and the type of sketchy shit google has been doing recently where it basically scrapes/steals content from websites and displays directly in the search engine.

Re: Google Search Upgrades Make It Harder for Websites to Win Traffic

#32

Post by in3d » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 1:57 PM UTC

There is a solution for websites. Band together and ban Googlebot at the same time. Post a message that the site will now only be searchable on, let’s say, Bing. Google would cave in. Of course it’s a collective action problem with a short-term revenue loss so easier said than done.

Re: Google Search Upgrades Make It Harder for Websites to Win Traffic

#33

Post by rc_mob » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

I use DDG but homestly it not much better as far as quality of results go. To me it feels like DDG has gone out of its way to copy Googles shitty algorithm.

Re: Google Search Upgrades Make It Harder for Websites to Win Traffic

#34

Post by ravenstine » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 2:02 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #16

mattkevan wrote: post #7

For all the tiny violins that could be played about how life is getting harder for SEO practitioners, this marks a fundamental and very unwelcome change in the Web. Google have decided that it’s more profitable to keep people on its own site than redirecting them elsewhere, a big change in its contract. Before, it was ‘structure your site well and we’ll send you traffic’. Now it’s becoming, ‘structure your site well…

What kinds of searches are you thinking about? I like that I can google for the weather or Dr. Fauci's age and get an answer directly. The results page always has links if I care to dig deeper but 99% of the time I'd rather get the answer and move on.

While I think those features are cool, and also appreciate DDG's very primitive version of them, how come it isn't considered some kind of copyright violation?

After all, use a 5 second clip of a song for fair use and YouTube may automatically remove your video(or just the audio) on behalf of Universal Music Group.

Maybe websites ought to send DMCA takedown notices to Google when they find their content being used as answers in the search result page?

Re: Google Search Upgrades Make It Harder for Websites to Win Traffic

#35

Post by IAmEveryone » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 2:02 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #29

criddell wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kinds of searches are you thinking about? I like that I can google for the weather or Dr. Fauci's age and get an answer directly. The results page always has links if I care to dig deeper but 99% of the time I'd rather get the answer and move on.

You lose the serendipity of other things sites might tell you - you get Dr. Fauci's age quicker, and a few other bits that Google sanction as appropriate for you, but that's all you get. Google can censor the rest of the facts if they choose to, and you'll never know because you don't leave the safe walls of Google's search page. To date Google have 'only' censored search results in countries like China, but doesn't…

I get that "censorship" is dominating some people's thinking these days, but the relevancy here is ... tenuous.

Google always controlled the search results, and therefore the information you were going to see. Filtering the pages they link to isn't materially different from filtering the facts they choose to feature.

There's also a complete lack of motive here: Google allows you to pay them to "manipulate" SERPS (by placing your ad on it). And they tend to follow local laws. Beyond that, there just aren't any credible examples of manipulation, nor are there any plausible theories as to what would motivate them to do so.

I believe people feel uneasy about these changes because it's unsustainable: when they cut off all traffic to , will soon stop producing the data Google is recycling.

Plus, we all see ourselves as potential heroes in a story about some scrappy startup or project doing cool things with barely any budget and being successful. That opportunity relies on search as one of very few zero-cost meritocratic channels to find users.

Re: Google Search Upgrades Make It Harder for Websites to Win Traffic

#36

Post by jaden » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

pedro2 wrote: post #19

onyva wrote: post #2

Give runnaroo a try. I’ve made if the default search engine everywhere. It’s really that good and they make it possible to enjoy the web again as well as reach relevant content instantly.

What's their business model?

Looks like ads and affiliate links.

https://www.runnaroo.com/privacy

Re: Google Search Upgrades Make It Harder for Websites to Win Traffic

#37

Post by coliveira » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

mattkevan wrote: post #7

For all the tiny violins that could be played about how life is getting harder for SEO practitioners, this marks a fundamental and very unwelcome change in the Web. Google have decided that it’s more profitable to keep people on its own site than redirecting them elsewhere, a big change in its contract. Before, it was ‘structure your site well and we’ll send you traffic’. Now it’s becoming, ‘structure your site well…

This was kind of obvious when they started to force everyone to make their content discoverable by Google. They were just trying to move content from publishers to their own web site. And the best part is: they did this with publishers consent, so now the price to even appear on Google is to give them content so that they can keep viewers for longer time in their web site. It is a complete scam that is the culmination of monopoly behavior.

Re: Google Search Upgrades Make It Harder for Websites to Win Traffic

#38

Post by coliveira » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #34

criddell wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kinds of searches are you thinking about? I like that I can google for the weather or Dr. Fauci's age and get an answer directly. The results page always has links if I care to dig deeper but 99% of the time I'd rather get the answer and move on.

While I think those features are cool, and also appreciate DDG's very primitive version of them, how come it isn't considered some kind of copyright violation? After all, use a 5 second clip of a song for fair use and YouTube may automatically remove your video(or just the audio) on behalf of Universal Music Group. Maybe websites ought to send DMCA takedown notices to Google when they find their content being used as…

Yes, publishers should start sending takedown notices to Google for their content. However, most people don't do this because the result is to be completely dropped from Google.

Re: Google Search Upgrades Make It Harder for Websites to Win Traffic

#39

Post by AlexandrB » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 2:12 PM UTC

Guidii wrote: post #26

tannhaeuser wrote: post #11

Yeah, just what've been saying for some time now. As Google is struggling for growth, it'll squeeze ad revenue off the extant web, turning it into a piece of shit even more than it is already. The same thing happened with eg. free PHPbb forum providers in early 2000s which were plastered with banner ads more and more (many mobile sites are like this already). I don't see a way that Google can win this race to the bot…

Your argument assumes this is a fixed-sum game? The story changes if the web continues to grow and more folks do more business over the web.

It is a fixed-sum game for Google's search product. There's only so many searches that people can/will do in a day - we're probably nearing that limit - and Google already has >70% marketshare in search. The only way to increase revenue is to get more money per-search. Hence the increased number of sponsored placements and other revenue generators on the first page of results.

Re: Google Search Upgrades Make It Harder for Websites to Win Traffic

#40

Post by Santosh83 » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 2:17 PM UTC

onyva wrote: post #2

Give runnaroo a try. I’ve made if the default search engine everywhere. It’s really that good and they make it possible to enjoy the web again as well as reach relevant content instantly.

Seems like I can't load search results beyond two pages. I searched for a term and after the first page, clicked the "show more results" button and got a 2nd page, and then no more. The button didn't appear again. I know for a fact that it was a common search term with dozens/hundreds of pages worth of results on other search engines.