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Redis Core Team Update

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Re: Redis Core Team Update

#31

Post by baddox »

phroobster wrote: post #17
miked85 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In case you wonder, they are not random people put there for reasons, like for example since Madelyn is a woman so there was some pressure to add she Kind of a strange thing to call out.

These are the times we live in. Thanks to widespread racist/sexist hiring practices, every time I see a woman or minority in an upper level position I can’t help but wonder if they are there because someone wanted to fill a diversity quota. The thought never even crossed my mind 10 years ago.

Are you suggesting that tech or corporate culture now is more discriminatory in its hiring practices than it was 10 years ago?

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#32

Post by cperciva »

asperous wrote: post #5
derefr wrote: post #4

Interesting move, putting “SLA-driven” infrastructure engineers (i.e. people working at public clouds to deliver Redis-as-a-Service solutions) in charge of the project. (Not just these two from AWS and Alibaba Cloud, but the rest being from Redis Labs.) It seems like, for one reason or another (Redis Labs because they want to sell their “core plus proprietary modules” service; the clouds because they want to push you…

True but I think thats the most skeptical viewpoint possible. 1. Those orgs succeed when redis succeeds. So they want to see it used more which means more features. 2. Developers think for themselves and aren't always "double agents". 3. The redis community still exists and open source communities are often very vocal about directing products

2. Developers think for themselves and aren't always "double agents".

I don't think the situation is quite as binary as this suggests. Even assuming that developers are consistently doing what they believe is in the best interest of the project, their employers may benefit from being able to encourage them to consider the items which are the employer's priorities. Developers don't have unlimited time, and if they have to choose between two worthwhile projects and one of them is of interest to their employer, it's likely that's the one they'll spend time on.

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#33

Post by imron »

derefr wrote: post #4

Interesting move, putting “SLA-driven” infrastructure engineers (i.e. people working at public clouds to deliver Redis-as-a-Service solutions) in charge of the project. (Not just these two from AWS and Alibaba Cloud, but the rest being from Redis Labs.) It seems like, for one reason or another (Redis Labs because they want to sell their “core plus proprietary modules” service; the clouds because they want to push you…

> I’m sure people running Redis in production are happy about that.

I sympathize with the main points you were making, but surely ‘people running Redis in production’ are the core use case for Redis, so ultimately this move seems good for the project’s overall direction.

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#34

Post by dupjor »

miked85 wrote: post #15
antirez wrote: post #3

Both Madelyn and Zhao are terrific programmers. In case you wonder, they are not random people put there for reasons, like for example since Madelyn is a woman so there was some pressure to add she. She deserves this 100% and is one of the top Redis contributors of the last times, with deep technical knowledge in basically every aspect of Redis. The same for Zhao, he is simply impressive, can track bugs about complex…

> In case you wonder, they are not random people put there for reasons, like for example since Madelyn is a woman so there was some pressure to add she Kind of a strange thing to call out.

I'm pretty sure Antirez doesn't mean it the way you're interpreting it. Just like me, he's not a native English speaker. I believe what he means is that she has NOT been chosen simply because she's a woman, but because of her skills.

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#35

Post by asveikau »

majormajor wrote: post #22
phroobster wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are the times we live in. Thanks to widespread racist/sexist hiring practices, every time I see a woman or minority in an upper level position I can’t help but wonder if they are there because someone wanted to fill a diversity quota. The thought never even crossed my mind 10 years ago.

This is a bizarre claim. People getting labeled as "diversity hires" and being assumed to be less competent than their peers is a decades-old thing. It wasn't even a particularly new observation when South Park literally named a character after it almost 25 years ago. (Probably many of the same people getting labeled that way for holding high-level positions today were similarly judged in their entry-level positions…

25 years ago it was already old news. I remember in my childhood even further back than that, the grownups would make comments about affirmative action hires.

If you think about it this is just one more layer of discrimination people face. If you are in one of those categories, no matter how smart, competent, and worthy you are, many people will assume you didn't get there on merit, and that you took the job from someone better. We ought to reject this.

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#36

Post by sdesol »

johnfn wrote: post #23
swagonomixxx wrote: post #9

What will be interesting to see is how Redis fares without Antirez. He was the heart and soul of the project. It also makes me think, what would Linux be when Linus decides to step away? I kind of don't want to think about it. Thank you to Antirez for all your hard work on Redis.

One of my favorite bits of trivia: What would Git be like if Linus stepped away? Oh yeah, he stepped away after a few months and Junio Hamano continued running it for the next 15 years[1] (!!). [1]: https://github.com/git/git/graphs/contributors

I'm not sure what your point is. Antirez has been contributing to redis for over 11 years and accounts for 80% of all its code churn.

https://imgur.com/RnlzECa

In just the last 90 days, he accounted for 50% of the code that is being changed in redis. I'm currently indexing the Git repository, as I'm curious to see the impact Linus had before he left, but I don't think Linus leaving, is anything like antirez leaving.

Sorry if this post comes of confrontational, as that is not its intention. I just don't understand what comparison you are trying to make.

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#37

Post by quietbritishjim »

sdesol wrote: post #36
johnfn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favorite bits of trivia: What would Git be like if Linus stepped away? Oh yeah, he stepped away after a few months and Junio Hamano continued running it for the next 15 years[1] (!!). [1]: https://github.com/git/git/graphs/contributors

I'm not sure what your point is. Antirez has been contributing to redis for over 11 years and accounts for 80% of all its code churn. https://imgur.com/RnlzECa In just the last 90 days, he accounted for 50% of the code that is being changed in redis. I'm currently indexing the Git repository, as I'm curious to see the impact Linus had before he left, but I don't think Linus leaving, is anything like antirez leaving.…

I think they were replying to a different bit of the parent comment than you seem to think:

> ... what would Linux be when Linus decides to step away?

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#38

Post by derptron »

majormajor wrote: post #30
Supermancho wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a bizarre claim. https://techcrunch.com/2020/06/05/alexis-ohanian-steps-down-... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/17/us/california-boardroom-g... This isn't new news. Diversity hiring and promotion is all over, alongside the recent BLM relevance.

Yes, there's been ongoing activism, hand-wringing, counter-activism, legislation, etc, in this space for several decades. So claiming that it's a phenomenon of just the last decade as a way to justify suspicion of merit is very bizarre. Where have you all been?

If you can't admit that the behavior has increased in recent times then there's no point in discussion

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#39

Post by wwright »

phroobster wrote: post #17
miked85 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In case you wonder, they are not random people put there for reasons, like for example since Madelyn is a woman so there was some pressure to add she Kind of a strange thing to call out.

These are the times we live in. Thanks to widespread racist/sexist hiring practices, every time I see a woman or minority in an upper level position I can’t help but wonder if they are there because someone wanted to fill a diversity quota. The thought never even crossed my mind 10 years ago.

I think the widespread practices may be calling from inside the house.

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#40

Post by wwright »

dijit wrote: post #29
majormajor wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bizarre claim. People getting labeled as "diversity hires" and being assumed to be less competent than their peers is a decades-old thing. It wasn't even a particularly new observation when South Park literally named a character after it almost 25 years ago. (Probably many of the same people getting labeled that way for holding high-level positions today were similarly judged in their entry-level positions…

> This is a bizarre claim. People getting labeled as "diversity hires" and being assumed to be less competent than their peers is a decades-old thing. The truth is that it kind of doesn't matter if it's new or not, it's a very hot subject right now and people are touchy about it. I understand why; Women are facing a lot of abuse on the internet and it feels like many are coming forward with icky things that people ha…

Are you claiming that you couldn’t find any woman who was qualified for your project?
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