According to 19th century German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer, “All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as self-evident.”
Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds (2017)
31–40 of 126 posts
Re: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds (2017)
#32I really dislike this narrative that facts don't change our minds and we are all irrational. The thing is, truth does exert a pull on our beliefs. It's a slow force. It may take years for people to come around to it. Sometimes it even happens on a generational scale. But we are approaching the truth. Everything in history, and everything in our daily experience tells us this. A couple of experiments where researchers…
It also assumes a few other critical things.
1. The person learning the fact trusts the source
2. The fact can be easily proven if the person doesn’t trust the source
3. There are no other facts which provide context that are missing
These are all critical in how the general public receives “facts”.
Re: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds (2017)
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whether you like it or not has no bearing on whether it's true. In fact that's a confirmation bias right there. Presented with evidence of something you find unpalatable you simply reject it outright purely on the basis you don't like it. Personally I'd rather know. The point isn't that evidence has no power, it's that it has dramatically less power than most people think. However there are strategies for getting us…
> Presented with evidence of something you find unpalatable you simply reject it outright purely on the basis you don't like it. I presented a case for why I think it is wrong. And I presented a case for why people have reason to push it despite it being wrong: it gives them more power. Considering peoples motivations is important, and when someone stands to gain we should be suspicious and have to go over everything…
Sounds like it's time to submit some peer reviewed scientific papers to refute the current popular science opinion!
Oh you don't have the credentials to run experiments and talk about your findings? Oh well that's too bad, I guess we'll all live in the dark and you'll have your truth.
Re: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds (2017)
#34I really dislike this narrative that facts don't change our minds and we are all irrational. The thing is, truth does exert a pull on our beliefs. It's a slow force. It may take years for people to come around to it. Sometimes it even happens on a generational scale. But we are approaching the truth. Everything in history, and everything in our daily experience tells us this. A couple of experiments where researchers…
> I really dislike this narrative that facts don't change our minds and we are all irrational. To mirror simonh's comment, it's rather ironic that you're responding to a claim of fact, with an opinion. Whether it's true or not is a question of science, not wishful thinking, and you've not given a solid reason to reject the findings of this research. It's like the way the theory of evolution remains true whether or no…
> To mirror simonh's comment, it's rather ironic that you're responding to a claim of fact, with an opinion.
Are they? "But we are approaching the truth. Everything in history, and everything in our daily experience tells us this." sounds like a claim of fact. Do you disagree with it? Have we not, collectively, changed our minds on a great many things?
Evolution, heliocentrism, the importance of doctors washing their hands, the non-determinism of quantum physics - all of these are a result of people changing their minds when presented with new facts. Even the importance of car safety belts and harmfulness of smoking. You are literally surrounded by evidence of people changing their minds when presented with new facts, but choose to instead focus on a few experiments where some people didn't change their minds when presented with some evidence on certain topics.
How did the article call it.. confirmation bias?
Re: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds (2017)
#35I really dislike this narrative that facts don't change our minds and we are all irrational. The thing is, truth does exert a pull on our beliefs. It's a slow force. It may take years for people to come around to it. Sometimes it even happens on a generational scale. But we are approaching the truth. Everything in history, and everything in our daily experience tells us this. A couple of experiments where researchers…
Truth on some things are simple.
Truth on others, like medicine, psychiatry, nutrition, etc.. Are really really conflicting. And people build cultures and tribes around their truths, each backed by science. Get some keto people, vegetarians and run of the mill nutrtion experts to sit around debating and your head will spin
There's such a complexity there, conflicting studies, poorly done studies.. Finding a "truth" in how we should eat, how often, etc.. Is near impossible.
And that's just that subject.
Re: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds (2017)
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whether you like it or not has no bearing on whether it's true. In fact that's a confirmation bias right there. Presented with evidence of something you find unpalatable you simply reject it outright purely on the basis you don't like it. Personally I'd rather know. The point isn't that evidence has no power, it's that it has dramatically less power than most people think. However there are strategies for getting us…
> Presented with evidence of something you find unpalatable you simply reject it outright purely on the basis you don't like it. I presented a case for why I think it is wrong. And I presented a case for why people have reason to push it despite it being wrong: it gives them more power. Considering peoples motivations is important, and when someone stands to gain we should be suspicious and have to go over everything…
I suppose I was a bit antagonistic in my post sorry, but if anything your observation supports the article's position. Why should facts exert only a slow, painstaking generational force on belief if people are actually rational? Surely it should have immediate effect?
I really don't see what these researchers or journalists have to gain, beyond what they would gain from doing any research or journalism. I'm just not seeing any credible counter-arguments.
Re: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds (2017)
#37I really dislike this narrative that facts don't change our minds and we are all irrational. The thing is, truth does exert a pull on our beliefs. It's a slow force. It may take years for people to come around to it. Sometimes it even happens on a generational scale. But we are approaching the truth. Everything in history, and everything in our daily experience tells us this. A couple of experiments where researchers…
I tend to agree. The problem is that the elites weaponize stuff like this, because they think it applies only to the masses--not the highly educated. Instead of asking why somebody might have different views (and instead of actually learning what the different viewpoints are), they just assume that that other, less educated people fail to actually analyze the data.
Re: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds (2017)
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I really dislike this narrative that facts don't change our minds and we are all irrational. To mirror simonh's comment, it's rather ironic that you're responding to a claim of fact, with an opinion. Whether it's true or not is a question of science, not wishful thinking, and you've not given a solid reason to reject the findings of this research. It's like the way the theory of evolution remains true whether or no…
> To mirror simonh's comment, it's rather ironic that you're responding to a claim of fact, with an opinion. Are they? "But we are approaching the truth. Everything in history, and everything in our daily experience tells us this." sounds like a claim of fact. Do you disagree with it? Have we not, collectively, changed our minds on a great many things? Evolution, heliocentrism, the importance of doctors washing their…
This is just a logical fallacy. Some people changed their minds when presented with new facts, sure, but only some, some didn't and most people likely changed their minds when presented and bombarded with opinions, propaganda, etc., but not facts.
Re: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds (2017)
#39Were the New Yorker honest, they'd entitle this: "Why the Uneducated Don't Understand That You're Right." Which is a shame. This type of information should be used to help better the reader by asking them to understand their own blind spots--not indulge the reader by telling them that their adversary is ignorant and irraitonal.
Re: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds (2017)
#40According to 19th century German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer, “All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as self-evident.”
Oh that's a fact right there. Take any piece of evidence or information, if it is ridiculed too much or violently opposed, and has been for ages, but no one forgot it, then it's probably true or partially true.