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Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

uk.reuters.com

31–40 of 224 posts

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#31
I feel like the more a head of state is punched from below without doing anything, the better he or she is. I think each insult that runs down the back is a great way to measure the worse paths and timelines not taken, a physical manifestation of the ghost of Christmas Future. It's also a great measurement tool because oftentimes things we do are not within our control, but the things we don't do are, because we choose not to do them.

Greatness is a small number of key visionary decisions, and not a bunch of little reactive ones.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#32
There is a reason why we're seeing the rise of the autocrats (Erdogan, Putin, Jiping, Orban, Bolsonaro, Trump, Duterte, Kaczyński, ...): it is because openness and democracy triumphed before. And it won because previous autocrats failed.

Edit: my point is: starting in the late 70's, authoritarian regimes failed miserably before all over the world, therefore there's no reason to believe they'll succeed thist time. Remember Marx explaining Charles Bonaparte: history happens twice, first as a tragedy, second as a farce.

The fundamental fact is that, in the long run, autocrats are very incompetent and make a lot of mistakes, mostly by hubris and because they're surrounded by yes-men that hide them the truth. They become detached from facts, they think they can control facts until facts control them.

Erdogan's strong rule is a drug that Turkey will have to pay very dearly to get rid off.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#33
It's so weird that people here usually want to regulate social media, but when some other government that doesn't share your worldview does it, it's all of a sudden oppressive.

You say the wrong thing online in the UK or Germany, the police come knocking. Everyone always thinks their reason for censorship is exceptional because their beliefs are the one-true virtuous beliefs in the universe.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#34

It's all too interesting what is happening in the region. Some say he's going back Ottoman empire with his entire navy and claiming pieces of Cyprus to the disliking of Cyprus and Greece. While also performing enormous military exercises under the guise of Mavi Vatan, which also bears symbolic reference to their history. Meanwhile Erdogan is set on keeping the steady flow of immigrants coming for as long as he's the…

I do not see how contemporary Russia is "desperate in acquiring more territory".

My interpretation is as following -- please correct me if I'm wrong. Note: I am not endorsing (nor criticising) Russian policies here, just trying to understand and learn. In order to learn, I try and give as clearcut an explanation as possible of my current understanding, so as to make it as easy as possible for others with more expertise to point to where I am wrong (if indeed I am wrong). My take is this: contemporary Russian policy is a variation on "spheres of influence" [1], and Russia treats its neighbours as being in its "sphere of influence", and does not accept them becoming part of NATO. I think the implicit deal with "sphere of influence" neighbours is: as long as you don't join NATO, you can do whatever you like but as soon as you try to join NATO we will stop this, including with force. Currently, Russia has borders with the following NATO countries: Norway, Estonia and Latvia. The latter two joined NATO in 2004, when Russia felt too weak to do anything about it, especially since they are not land-locked, so could be easily be defended by western Navies.

A clear example of this was the Russian-Georgian War in 2008. Russia withdrew after a couple of days (but left some "Frozen Conflicts" [2] in place that it can 'turn on' at will, as a power-lever: South Ossetia and Abkhazia). Who would have defended Georgia if Russia had decided to stay, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Turkey? Probably not. Likewise, Russia could easily invade an keep the 'stans. Take land-locked Kazakhstan: huge, rich in resources, nearly empty, and, thanks to Stalin's policy of mixing ethnic groups, about 1/4 of the population is ethic Russian anyway (in 1989 it was nearly 40%). Who would defend Kazakhstan? Mongolia, Uzbekistan , Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan? Probably not. Ukraine is an interesting special case, and the annexation of Crimea can be interpreted in this way: Ukraine came too close to NATO, and Crimea is important for the ability of the Russian navy to project power in the Mediterranean Sea. Crimea is > 2/3 Russian from the POV of ethnic groups and Russia has a higher standard of living than Ukraine, so the majority of the Crimean population would probably have been ok with the policy anyway.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphere_of_influence

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_conflict

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#35
The United States is not much better in terms of this. We have a free press in name only. If you are saying something that certain people don’t like, you are canceled. Your tweets will be taken down since you violated weakly worded community standards. You will be flagged on HN. Etc. Ultimately we have a dictatorship of ideas. The best answer so far is to go make a freedom platform with blackjack and hookers. Essentially we’re told to build better echo chambers.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#36
post #30
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Turkey is not a democracy?

https://freedomhouse.org/country/turkey/freedom-world/2020

Their opinions on Turkey might be fair, but beware that Freedom House is basically an arm of the US State Department.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#37
post #14

I wonder what some mid- to long-term consequences of Turkey slipping into dictatorship will be for NATO as a whole. It's clear Turkey is drifting away from the values held by the alliance members. I'm so glad they haven't been accepted into the EU. That would be a disaster.

> I'm so glad they haven't been accepted into the EU. That would be a disaster. At that time though Turkey would have been a real welcome growth addition to the EU. 2005 +9% growth, the year the EU opened accession negotiations with Turkey. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union%E2%80%93Turke...

I am Turkish and I feel like the culture difference is just too massive to be a member of EU right now. Economically, it would be an nice addition to EU, because Germany and France would very much enjoy the free access to the this huge market, so the current situation reflects that: EU has nice access to Turkish market with the current agreements, but they do not allow Turkey to be a member.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#38

I wonder what some mid- to long-term consequences of Turkey slipping into dictatorship will be for NATO as a whole. It's clear Turkey is drifting away from the values held by the alliance members. I'm so glad they haven't been accepted into the EU. That would be a disaster.

Nothing. Macron's police forces were as bad and brutal with the yellow vests movement as the Turkish police was with the Gezi Park protests back in 2013, if anything some Western European leaders are taking notes. To say nothing about the very recent meeting between Macron and Putin which ended on a very congratulatory note from both sides.

As for Germany they have been in bed with Russia for a long time, and Austria is basically one of the main conduits for laundering money coming from "bad" Russian people (who steal from the majority of the Russian population).

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#39

The United States is not much better in terms of this. We have a free press in name only. If you are saying something that certain people don’t like, you are canceled. Your tweets will be taken down since you violated weakly worded community standards. You will be flagged on HN. Etc. Ultimately we have a dictatorship of ideas. The best answer so far is to go make a freedom platform with blackjack and hookers. Essenti…

At least I can says something against Trump or even the government and my posts will probably not be deleted. Free press and speech doesn’t mean everyone gets equal speaking time, just that the government is very limited in how it can interfere. It is just a restriction on government power, really.

And yes, this restriction on government power is much better than what they have in China, Turkey, etc... it is actually much better.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#40

The United States is not much better in terms of this. We have a free press in name only. If you are saying something that certain people don’t like, you are canceled. Your tweets will be taken down since you violated weakly worded community standards. You will be flagged on HN. Etc. Ultimately we have a dictatorship of ideas. The best answer so far is to go make a freedom platform with blackjack and hookers. Essenti…

Personally I have found that on HN there is more of a dictatorship of phrasing than a dictatorship of ideas. Here's the short list of ideas you can't say on HN no matter how you phrase them, I think you would agree that this is not excessive:

- "Individuals of one race are better or worse than individuals of another."

- "One gender is clearly better or worse than another."

- Anything about Republicans or Democrats

The origin of this list is not that the mods are biased, it's that they have a 100% correlation with foaming at the mouth.

As far as I can tell that's the whole list. Anyone care to add to it? Do not repeat the actual arguments, that will start a flame war.

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