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Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

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Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#31

Post by jedberg »

stevehawk wrote: post #27
grawprog wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bet those stats go way up in the next few months as more and more businesses get on the refusing cash bandwagon. Apparently it's for 'safety' but I live in a country where my money's made out of plastic or metal, that shit can be sprayed or dunked in iso. The excuse seems pretty flimsy too when again, places don't seem to bother cleaning off their pinpads before the cashiers or other customers touch them anyway.

That stat won't change much in the US. It's illegal for a store to turn down cash.

That's a myth:

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

Private companies can refuse cash.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#33

Post by jariel »

tiffanyh wrote: post #20

I am reading so much incorrect information in this thread it’s maddening. The card network (Visa, Mastercard, etc) do NOT make money on Interchange. It’s hard to have a healthy dialogue on this topic if folks don’t understand the basics of how the card networks generate revenue. Below is a decent primer. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets/032615/how-mas...

The article does not indicate that VISA/MC makes their money directly from the 'interchange' but it's perfectly valid to indicate that VISA/MS are in fact the lynch-pin of the credit card 'system oligarchy'.

In particular, it is they that are able to set rates for transactions, and do anti-competitive things like ban e-retailers from offering relative discounts like 'save 2.5% if you use cash' etc..

It's absolutely an ancient cabal banking network, that would be disrupted in any normal, competitive system.

2.5% of a transaction considerably too much, were there efficiency, it would be less than 0.5%.

Edit: monopoly->oligarchy

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#34

Post by rvz »

Well one of the reasons why they (MasterCard and Visa) backed Libra is because they were after the potential of cryptocurrencies, but in a controlled fashion, which Libra was perfect for them, Unlike other alternatives until they themselves left Libra.

Anything this duopoly can't control is a big no-no to them which is why they detest Bitcoin and the other alternative cryptocurrencies. Some online services are beginning to accept cryptocurrencies, which is a start. Cryptocurrency ATMs are a thing to cash out money, thus one could say that you might have bypassed them.

A side note, for those offended by master/slave terminology perhaps now you can ask Mastercard to change their name. Since, its pretty much has somehow offended somebody out there. /s

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#35

Post by elliekelly »

jedberg wrote: post #31
stevehawk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That stat won't change much in the US. It's illegal for a store to turn down cash.

That's a myth: https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm Private companies can refuse cash.

There’s no federal law but it’s not a myth. It varies by jurisdiction. Several states (New Jersey, Rhode Island, and I’m sure others) and cities (NYC and Philadelphia, for example) don’t allow a retail business to refuse cash.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#36

Post by sonicggg »

rvz wrote: post #34

Well one of the reasons why they (MasterCard and Visa) backed Libra is because they were after the potential of cryptocurrencies, but in a controlled fashion, which Libra was perfect for them, Unlike other alternatives until they themselves left Libra. Anything this duopoly can't control is a big no-no to them which is why they detest Bitcoin and the other alternative cryptocurrencies. Some online services are beginn…

The terminology issue just shows us that people have got way too much spare time during the pandemic.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#37

Post by ComputerGuru »

jedberg wrote: post #30
tiffanyh wrote: post #20

I am reading so much incorrect information in this thread it’s maddening. The card network (Visa, Mastercard, etc) do NOT make money on Interchange. It’s hard to have a healthy dialogue on this topic if folks don’t understand the basics of how the card networks generate revenue. Below is a decent primer. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets/032615/how-mas...

I mean, technically no they don't. But that's just being pedantic. They charge the bank based on gross dollar volume, and the bank gets the money to pay for that from... interchange fees. The more volume the bank does, the more they pay and the more they get from interchange fees. Interchange fee pricing is set based on how much mastercard charges the banks, so while technically true, the interchange fees are basical…

Interchange fee pricing is set based on how much MasterCard charges the bank

That’s not true though, or at least is a massive oversimplification. In the US, interchange fees are extremely inflated to allow banks to recuperate the rewards they give out to distinguish their card offerings from one another. The 2% cashback has to come from somewhere.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#38

Post by vmception »

tiffanyh wrote: post #20

I am reading so much incorrect information in this thread it’s maddening. The card network (Visa, Mastercard, etc) do NOT make money on Interchange. It’s hard to have a healthy dialogue on this topic if folks don’t understand the basics of how the card networks generate revenue. Below is a decent primer. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets/032615/how-mas...

> It’s hard to have a healthy dialogue on this topic if folks don’t understand the basics of how the card networks generate revenue.

same for so many finance and legal topics

you should see the stuff people say in cryptocurrency land, you can even agree with their technology but still be surrounded by the weakest arguments

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#39

Post by vore »

seph-reed wrote: post #24
sm4rk0 wrote: post #19

Let's end the duopoly, but please don't forget Google (or Facebook, Apple, Amazon,...)

"Both" is word that will not make the Newspeak cut.

Calm down. Evoking HN's favorite specter of 1984 about payment processors is a bit much, don't you think?

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#40

Post by jedberg »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #37
jedberg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, technically no they don't. But that's just being pedantic. They charge the bank based on gross dollar volume, and the bank gets the money to pay for that from... interchange fees. The more volume the bank does, the more they pay and the more they get from interchange fees. Interchange fee pricing is set based on how much mastercard charges the banks, so while technically true, the interchange fees are basical…

Interchange fee pricing is set based on how much MasterCard charges the bank That’s not true though, or at least is a massive oversimplification. In the US, interchange fees are extremely inflated to allow banks to recuperate the rewards they give out to distinguish their card offerings from one another. The 2% cashback has to come from somewhere.

Sure, but the base rate comes from MC/Visa. Precessing credit cards is a low margin business. It's basically a race to see who can charge as close to the MC/Visa rates as possible.
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