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Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

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Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#31

Post by gpm »

andrewmunsell wrote: post #23

Are there any technologies today that would enable a distributed backup of IA? Something like BitTorrent, but where I can specify I want to host XXX GB of data, and all the nodes in the swarm would provide a redundant, distributed backup in aggregate? I realize things like IPFS exist, but as far as I'm aware those require manual file pinning. I want to just donate storage and bandwidth to back the files up, not have…

If you're donating storage and bandwidth to backup "files" up without specifying which ones, you're going to be backing up random peoples personal encrypted backups which are useless to anyone who doesn't have the key.

In the end you need a decision layer to decide what to back up that decides what based on some standard of what's good for society.

But maybe you don't need to centralize the storage, I could imagine a distributed IA which mostly piggybacks on other people's storage.

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#32

Post by hopfscotch7 »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #26
hopfscotch7 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t?

Better yet, nobody should be paid for any work whatsoever. We should all love what we do, and if we won't do what we do for free, we clearly don't love it enough. We should all put our lack of money where our mouths are.

If you just dropped the sarcastic tone, that's exactly right.

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#33

Post by jcranmer »

jawns wrote: post #18
geofft wrote: post #8

> We moved up our schedule because, last Monday, four commercial publishers chose to sue Internet Archive during a global pandemic. Did this come as a surprise? Did Internet Archive not expect publishers to sue? The Archive launched the emergency library during a global pandemic. Lots of people, myself included, said that this was a risky move because they would obviously get sued and it would put not only the Archiv…

I'm an author, and from my perspective, CDL seems like a reasonable way (if not the most reasonable way) to apply the first sale doctrine in the digital age. Publishers would prefer to instead license ebooks and pretend first sale doesn't apply at all for digital books. I understand why that irritates a lot of people. The Internet Archive, on the flip side, is pretending that copyright infringement doesn't apply duri…

One issue I have with borrowing ebooks is that, while typically there's ~1 copy per branch of physical books, there's ~1 copy per library system of ebooks, which makes trying to borrow ebooks unnecessarily frustrating. I'm not entirely certain who's to blame for this disparity, but it does exist, and I would love to see it rectified.

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#34

Post by hopfscotch7 »

karaterobot wrote: post #24
hopfscotch7 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t?

Your position is unusual enough that I don't really understand it. If you laid out an argument, I'd be happy to read it and have my mind changed. Terse responses are not persuasive, though.

I hold that you cannot own information. I can have a copy of some information which you have, without depriving you of it. Property rights don't apply. One needs only look at the way Disney has gotten copyright terms extended to see that it exists purely to serve entrenched publishing interests, and nothing more.

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#35

Post by andrewmunsell »

gpm wrote: post #31
andrewmunsell wrote: post #23

Are there any technologies today that would enable a distributed backup of IA? Something like BitTorrent, but where I can specify I want to host XXX GB of data, and all the nodes in the swarm would provide a redundant, distributed backup in aggregate? I realize things like IPFS exist, but as far as I'm aware those require manual file pinning. I want to just donate storage and bandwidth to back the files up, not have…

If you're donating storage and bandwidth to backup "files" up without specifying which ones, you're going to be backing up random peoples personal encrypted backups which are useless to anyone who doesn't have the key. In the end you need a decision layer to decide what to back up that decides what based on some standard of what's good for society. But maybe you don't need to centralize the storage, I could imagine a…

Specifically, I'm referring to files that are supposed to be public to begin with like the Internet Archive. The goal there is to replicate the data and make it publicly accessible.

There'd probably have to be some index (can IPNS be used for this?) to specify the root, and then you could specify you want to store XXX GB of random data from this root node.

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#36

Post by generationP »

geofft wrote: post #10
jMyles wrote: post #3

Figuring out how to move projects like IA to a configuration where they are beyond the reach of the state, but still universally accessible, is one of the most important open issues of the internet today.

Since we'd be moving from legal protection to technical protection, would we also figure out some technical means whereby this would be accessible by Internet Archive only? Or would all of us be given a way to publish anything we want in a way that makes it accessible to the whole world but no government can impede? Would that then include sealed court records, intimate photos, performance reviews, credit card number…

We have such havens already, and if the choice is between the Internet Archive plus everyone's naked pics or none of the two, I'd still vote for the former.

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#37

Post by obiye »

jawns wrote: post #21
DecoPerson wrote: post #17

The Internet Archive is so incredibly important. There’s a lot of different views about the purpose of life or lack thereof, but for all except a few beliefs, having access to past writings is very important. Humanity is only at the very beginning of its existence. The success or failure of projects like the Internet Archive will drastically change our future. If you think the loss of the Internet Archive won’t signi…

> the IA was shut down because its leadership decided to be philanthropic during a period of human history that lacked freedom of information Philanthropic by massively infringing on copyright. Giving away something you own and have a right to give away is one thing. But critics of the emergency library allege that because the IA doesn't own the copyright to these books, they don't get to make and lend unlimited copi…

Many people, myself among them, believe copyright is an unjust legal construct. In the vein of Gandhi, it is our moral imperative to violate unjust laws. So I stand with IA in their supposed violation of copyright.

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#38

Post by mellosouls »

jMyles wrote: post #3

Figuring out how to move projects like IA to a configuration where they are beyond the reach of the state, but still universally accessible, is one of the most important open issues of the internet today.

Not necessarily - an alternative approach is that "public service" projects like IA are supported by the state - but this will only happen when they are scrupulous with respect to the law.

This happens already in the US and other countries with various digital preservation initiatives that have legal mandates for their missions.

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#39

Post by toast0 »

jcranmer wrote: post #33
jawns wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an author, and from my perspective, CDL seems like a reasonable way (if not the most reasonable way) to apply the first sale doctrine in the digital age. Publishers would prefer to instead license ebooks and pretend first sale doesn't apply at all for digital books. I understand why that irritates a lot of people. The Internet Archive, on the flip side, is pretending that copyright infringement doesn't apply duri…

One issue I have with borrowing ebooks is that, while typically there's ~1 copy per branch of physical books, there's ~1 copy per library system of ebooks, which makes trying to borrow ebooks unnecessarily frustrating. I'm not entirely certain who's to blame for this disparity, but it does exist, and I would love to see it rectified.

There's been some hubub recently about publishers limiting the number of new books for eLending, but for books older than about 6 months? the number of eLending copies is determined by your library system to balance use and cost, although some of the eLending pricing is pretty sketchy though, I think I saw some books are priced at $x for 1 year or N borrows, whichever comes first.

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#40

Post by marcinzm »

generationP wrote: post #36
geofft wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since we'd be moving from legal protection to technical protection, would we also figure out some technical means whereby this would be accessible by Internet Archive only? Or would all of us be given a way to publish anything we want in a way that makes it accessible to the whole world but no government can impede? Would that then include sealed court records, intimate photos, performance reviews, credit card number…

We have such havens already, and if the choice is between the Internet Archive plus everyone's naked pics or none of the two, I'd still vote for the former.

Presumably you're not part of any group that could be abused, targeted or traumatized by such a system. For example, underage rape victims who have videos of their rape forever available to any pervert online. Along with their contact info since nothing helps with trauma like continual harassment about it. That, btw, was a true example from my social media feeds although the site in question was pornhub so there was some recourse.
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