Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

geekwire.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 223 posts

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#31

Post by 16bytes »

myalphabet wrote: post #11
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #8

There is a chance that some people with a history worth sharing might not be, and never be, in a position to talk. I personally think that non-compete agreements are a strange beast. On one side, you want to avoid people "switching sides" and bring important secrets with them, possibly the reason why they've been hired by a competitor. On the other side, you want a competitive job market, so that people would get the…

Agreed. I'm generally uncomfortable with noncompetes and especially with Amazon's practice of making every employee sign one. Unless it's a really special case where a team is working on something truly groundbreaking and secret, I don't see what Amazon is really afraid of if some random developer leaves and goes to a competitor. However, I do have to say that their argument as stated in this article does seem like a…

I'd be OK with non-competes if the departing company had to pay 150% of salary during the non-compete duration if they elected to invoke the non-compete.

In contract law, this is known as "consideration". California has decided that "sign this or you won't get hired", isn't a valid form of consideration because it inhibits future earning potential, it's not (normally) mutually negotiated, nor is it negotiated on equal terms.

If companies really want it, they should pay for it.

Alternatively, if Amazon wanted to protect its market strategy, it should have made sure there was no ambiguity in this term. For example, if they had a narrow non-compete that says, you can't do cloud marketing or marketing strategy for Microsoft, IBM, or Google, it would hold much more standing because it's not overly broad.

As its written, where could he have gone and known for sure that that business wasn't a competitor? You can argue nearly every business is a competitor of Amazon. That's what makes it invalid.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#32

Post by niyazpk »

julianeon wrote: post #28
ctvo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't appreciate you linking your own property that offers little new information except the rehash without an explicit disclaimer.

Ok; I can see people are displeased. I've added a disclaimer, since that was requested. I'd like to take a moment to ask then what is appropriate here, after checking the etiquette guidelines, which I read beforehand and which are linked below. I read them line by line in advance and I didn't see a conflict; to be clear, they don't disallow what I did. However, I'm open to being told what I could do that would be bet…

I didn't downvote you, but since you have written a wall of text about this:

Generally speaking, in these kind of situations, "Analysis" type links would be more appreciated than something that could be more "Gossipy".

The twitter links feel more like "reactions", and I am not in HN for those. I saw this news in twitter, and came here to read more in-depth discussion.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#33

Post by skinnymuch »

tonfa wrote: post #30
anarazel wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think cases like this can largely be dealt with by allowing non-competes, but only as long compensation continues. Without that the power imbalances are just too extreme. EDIT: rephrased to make clear I wasn't just referring to base salary.

A large part of compensation is probably not in base salary, that'd be asking for like a 50% compensation cut.

I was assuming the person meant what you take home. Not just base salary.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#34

Post by peterkos »

Infinitesimus wrote: post #6
hm8 wrote: post #5

It's interesting to see one of the basis of defense is promises made during offer stage. Anecdotally speaking, and I am not remotely close to Hall's position or responsibilities (an engineer) and in the past, the hiring team has always led me to believe that the non-competes are a standard clause and are not likely to be enforced. On a separate note, anybody knows if Google would help with legal defense of Hall or ig…

Google likely considered legal defense as part of the hiring cost when taking someone that high profile. > the hiring team has always led me to believe that the non-competes are a standard clause and are not likely to be enforced. Your average engineer is likely easily replaceable. Directors and VPs are hard to replace and a huge win for any company that successfully hires them.

> Google likely considered legal defense as part of the hiring cost when taking someone that high profile

Stuff like this is always so fascinating to me: the idea that someone's ability to do their job is worth fighting over in court -- nevermind the cultural costs of bringing someone new into a executive position at a company.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#35

Post by skinnymuch »

em-bee wrote: post #21
myalphabet wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An NDA is practically unenforceable in this situation, which is the entire point a noncompete is a thing. Who is going to snitch on them for revealing AWS secrets to Google and violating the NDA? Another Google exec?

don't need a snitch. they can just assume that it happens and sue anyways. the difficult part is coming up with proof that it actually happened

They aren’t suing someone random. Google would surely back the legal fees for the person if Google themselves aren’t somehow sued. What would be the point of this then?

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#36

Post by tempodox »

myalphabet wrote: post #11
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #8

There is a chance that some people with a history worth sharing might not be, and never be, in a position to talk. I personally think that non-compete agreements are a strange beast. On one side, you want to avoid people "switching sides" and bring important secrets with them, possibly the reason why they've been hired by a competitor. On the other side, you want a competitive job market, so that people would get the…

Agreed. I'm generally uncomfortable with noncompetes and especially with Amazon's practice of making every employee sign one. Unless it's a really special case where a team is working on something truly groundbreaking and secret, I don't see what Amazon is really afraid of if some random developer leaves and goes to a competitor. However, I do have to say that their argument as stated in this article does seem like a…

If that stuff is so important and unique, why don't they just patent it? Didn't they get a one-click purchase button patented?

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#37

Post by jedberg »

You know you're cool when you need a lawyer to change jobs.

I think it would be reasonable to allow non-competes, however, the company should have to keep paying you your full compensation (salary, stock, bonuses, etc) for as long as they keep you from being employed.

Sure, give the old employer veto power for a new job as long as they keep paying them for the lockout period.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#38

Post by ciarannolan »

tempodox wrote: post #36
myalphabet wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I'm generally uncomfortable with noncompetes and especially with Amazon's practice of making every employee sign one. Unless it's a really special case where a team is working on something truly groundbreaking and secret, I don't see what Amazon is really afraid of if some random developer leaves and goes to a competitor. However, I do have to say that their argument as stated in this article does seem like a…

If that stuff is so important and unique, why don't they just patent it? Didn't they get a one-click purchase button patented?

Because you can't patent "product plans, priorities, and competitive strategy", yet it is still extremely valuable.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#39

Post by skinnymuch »

em-bee wrote: post #23
kelnos wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that would have helped, given that he signed the agreement while a resident of a jurisdiction where it was valid. Regardless, I wouldn't uproot myself (and my family, if I had one) for something like this. Non-competes are an abomination and need to go, everywhere. The only alternative I'd accept is what's done in the finance world: you basically get a paid vacation for the term of your non-compete.

i don't think that matters. what matters is the jurisdiction where he works now. california doesn't want its employed population to be limited by noncompetes. they certainly won't be interested in honoring noncompetes from elsewhere.

Of course there are certain exceptions, but usually you’re still on the line for getting in trouble in another state. Being in another state doesn’t make you immune.

I would be surprised if that’s true even across EU country lines if you’re still within the EU.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#40

Post by [deleted] »

niyazpk wrote: post #32
julianeon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok; I can see people are displeased. I've added a disclaimer, since that was requested. I'd like to take a moment to ask then what is appropriate here, after checking the etiquette guidelines, which I read beforehand and which are linked below. I read them line by line in advance and I didn't see a conflict; to be clear, they don't disallow what I did. However, I'm open to being told what I could do that would be bet…

I didn't downvote you, but since you have written a wall of text about this: Generally speaking, in these kind of situations, "Analysis" type links would be more appreciated than something that could be more "Gossipy". The twitter links feel more like "reactions", and I am not in HN for those. I saw this news in twitter, and came here to read more in-depth discussion.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN