Anti-racism sites hit by wave of cyber-attacks • Hacker News Board

Re: Anti-racism sites hit by wave of cyber-attacks

#31

Post by threatofrain » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 2:13 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #12

zozbot234 wrote: post #7

Anti-racism sites are being knocked offline... and some people still think that white nationalists and nazi's are completely uninvolved in the street violence we've been seeing. Yeah right. This is Anonymous/4chan M.O., and it and "Antifa" are fake labels which white nationalists are using to cloak their violent plans.

Not just them, but also more recent stuff like the boogaloo movement[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogaloo_movement Edit: RE: Antifa as a "fake label". This might be true in specific cases, but there's an actual anti-fascist movement happening as well.

What institution can credibly provide a sense of the size of phenomena?

Re: Anti-racism sites hit by wave of cyber-attacks

#32

Post by pinopinopino » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

zwirbl wrote: post #24

lowdose wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like this group is developing it self along the line of /r/thedonald. Starts as a satire and slowly it shift to attracting more and more people with extremist views that replace the sarcastic group members.

I don't think it's likely the group started with sarcasm, more like they excused themselves with /s and Hey it's only sarcasm

We only do it for the lulz.

Re: Anti-racism sites hit by wave of cyber-attacks

#33

Post by jedieaston » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #10

I feel bad for Cloudflare saying this, but I really think this shows we need to democratize DDoS protection. It's become essentially mandatory if you're running a site which might face controversy, and in the long term I'm not sure we can rely on the continued goodwill of a handful of companies to make sure it's widely available.

What does that actually mean in practice? Government subsidized compute doesn't seem like something I'd trust all that much in practice (seems like it'd be ripe for censorship). So it'd have to be decentralized. If only IPFS was ready for prime time....

Re: Anti-racism sites hit by wave of cyber-attacks

#34

Post by 015UUZn8aEvW » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 2:16 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #10

I feel bad for Cloudflare saying this, but I really think this shows we need to democratize DDoS protection. It's become essentially mandatory if you're running a site which might face controversy, and in the long term I'm not sure we can rely on the continued goodwill of a handful of companies to make sure it's widely available.

Agreed. Carrying out a DDos attack is illegal, so these services are protecting sites against illegal activity. If we want to uphold the rule of law, protecting against illegal activity should be acceptable regardless of the contents of a website.

A physical comparison would be a security system for a business's property. The security company shouldn't be able to disable the system for a company simply because they don't like the politics of the people operating it. Doing that would essentially be facilitating a crime.

Re: Anti-racism sites hit by wave of cyber-attacks

#35

Post by ginko » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 2:16 PM UTC

scoutt wrote: post #26

rapsey wrote: post #3

We are really seing the chickens comming home to roost with regards to globalisation politics of the last few decades. When the wealth growth only happens in the top few percent this is inevitable.

While in "in the last few decades" you could dream about owning a computer, today you have a supercomputer in your pocket that you can use to complain about the remainder of unresolved issues of our imperfect human society. And we are reading your messages from all the continents in the world. Think! before talking about "globalization" as inherently "bad".

I'm not agreeing with OP, but I don't find the "but there's iphones now" argument all that convincing. Having a gadget when you can barely afford rent or medical care is a small comfort.

Re: Anti-racism sites hit by wave of cyber-attacks

#36

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 2:17 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #22

lowdose wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like this group is developing it self along the line of /r/thedonald. Starts as a satire and slowly it shift to attracting more and more people with extremist views that replace the sarcastic group members.

I wonder if this phenomenon has more specific name than just "radicalization". "Rule of goats"[1] comes close. [1] https://twitter.com/popehat/status/858722120620265473?lang=e...

Other labels which may be useful are "ha ha only serious" (ironic racism is in and of itself still racism), and "stochastic terrorism", the circulation and planting of propaganda, ideology, and conspiracy theories that leads to mass shootings.

The NZ mass shooter and Anders Breivik manifestoes are examples of this. There's an entire nutcase ecosystem out there who cite each other in their murders.

Re: Anti-racism sites hit by wave of cyber-attacks

#37

Post by 5040 » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 2:17 PM UTC

belorn wrote: post #21

I would like to see an estimate in how much a person paid in the black market to buy access to the botnets that did this. $5? $50? $100? What is the going rate for 110k requests per seconds?

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/08/stress-testing-the-boote...

This article is 5 years old now, but may give a rough idea.

Like other booter services, Asylum, Lizard Stresser and VDO rely on a subscription model, where customers or subscribers can launch an unlimited number of attacks that have a duration typically ranging from 30 seconds to 1-3 hours and are limited to 1-4 concurrent attacks depending on the tier of subscription purchased. The price for a subscription normally ranges from $10-$300 USD per a month depending on the duration and number of concurrent attacks provided.

Re: Anti-racism sites hit by wave of cyber-attacks

#38

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 2:18 PM UTC

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #18

zozbot234 wrote: post #7

Anti-racism sites are being knocked offline... and some people still think that white nationalists and nazi's are completely uninvolved in the street violence we've been seeing. Yeah right. This is Anonymous/4chan M.O., and it and "Antifa" are fake labels which white nationalists are using to cloak their violent plans.

Why not arrest and interrogate the ones causing violence and find out if they’re white nationalist, antifa, or something else? It’s not like we’re forced to just spitball conspiracy theories here.

.. or police provocateurs?

Re: Anti-racism sites hit by wave of cyber-attacks

#39

Post by KONAir » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 2:19 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #12

zozbot234 wrote: post #7

Anti-racism sites are being knocked offline... and some people still think that white nationalists and nazi's are completely uninvolved in the street violence we've been seeing. Yeah right. This is Anonymous/4chan M.O., and it and "Antifa" are fake labels which white nationalists are using to cloak their violent plans.

Not just them, but also more recent stuff like the boogaloo movement[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogaloo_movement Edit: RE: Antifa as a "fake label". This might be true in specific cases, but there's an actual anti-fascist movement happening as well.

It is outright silly to discount either neo-nazi or antifa involvement. The only worthwhile discussion to be had would be to figure how much of the police provocation dumped onto them (or in case of neo-nazis collaborated with). Don't ignore all the Neiman Marxists out for activism tourism.

Re: Anti-racism sites hit by wave of cyber-attacks

#40

Post by vorpalhex » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 2:20 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #7

Anti-racism sites are being knocked offline... and some people still think that white nationalists and nazi's are completely uninvolved in the street violence we've been seeing. Yeah right. This is Anonymous/4chan M.O., and it and "Antifa" are fake labels which white nationalists are using to cloak their violent plans.

Several of the "anonymous" (the hacker pseudo personality) accounts were moving in support of the protestors. It wouldn't surprise me if that triggered a backlash internally.

So you probably have people from 4chan/Anonymous who are for the protestors.. and people from 4chan/Anonymous who are against it.

I wouldn't use that as evidence Antifa isn't involved. I think the video evidence makes it clear there are plenty of people involved in the violence.