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Unker Non-Linear Writing System

s.ai

31–40 of 71 posts

Re: Unker Non-Linear Writing System

#31
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took note of that part too, it reminds me of this article [1] posted on HN recently. It contrasts the fleeting and context dependent flows of posts on social media ("the stream") with enduring wiki style interlinking of posts where the context is embedded in the linking ("the garden"). It consider it in the context of personal note taking, and I feel what you mention is the garden approach to conversation, as oppos…

Perhaps well-implemented collaborative sketching could be the medium that turns conversations from streams into gardens (and it’s the only way of chatting in UNLWS I can imagine). Some of the challenges I see: — Tracking where the conversation is being advanced, since it can happen at any place in the sketch. — Sketching, while can be more informative than text, is tricker to conform to smaller mobile screen sizes. —…

Tracking: if you're asking a question or otherwise anticipating where the other will add, there are relatively few places to look.

Also, we use different colors per author in multi-author utterances, which makes it easy to spot another's writing.

Of course, unless you have an animated or history-preserving medium (which we assume we don't), then reconstructing the order of conversation might be difficult. That is entirely in keeping with our sense of what is "natural" to a non-linear language. The order in which something was written is temporal, and everything temporal is linear, so it's disfavored semantically & grammatically.

We prefer to challenge concepts like "conversation" at the root on such issues, rather than try to adapt UNLWS to afford them.

Sketching: we assume an infinite plane writing canvas. In practice, this means eg that one can use scaling to fit anything anywhere. However, we generally do not make use of images, unless it's purely quotative.

We do have e.g. graphs grammaticalized, though (inspired by Tufte's sparklines, but with a few more affordances from not being in a linear embedding.)

3d+: We considered that early on — and it's addressed in my essays on language design — but we rejected it as too under-constrained and difficult to work with in practice.

However, I've recently been thinking about a UNLWS-ish tactile 2.5D concept, which would use texture and a shallow height dimension — like a topographic map, not like an ants' nest. That's still in early conceptual stage, and not documented anywhere except a couple posts on CONLANG-L.

Re: Unker Non-Linear Writing System

#32
post #26

I'm Sai, co-creator of UNLWS. AMA(relevant).

Are you still working on it, is there a community I could join to try having a conversation using it?

Yes, we're still working on it. (E.g. we were discussing the concept "only" a couple days ago.)

Right now, our main blocker is technical: we want a JavaScript based method for rendering it from a DSL, because making, loading, & maintaining images in the doc is a huge pain.

We've provisionally decided on using Cytoscape.js, but it needs some extensions to work for us — e.g. cubic splines (it only has quadratic) and relative angles of attachment for edges to nodes. My areas of expertise are mainly back end web dev & analytics, and Alex's are mainly academic math & coding competitions, so JS isn't particularly easy for either of us.

We'd appreciate help with this. It's on my GitHub¹; get in contact personally² if interested.

As for a speaker community, we don't have one currently, though over the years we've had around 3-4 people express interest. We never really considered it something that others would want to do (though we've always been quite interested in getting feedback, suggestions, etc., and we'd be willing to engage in in-UNLWS dialogue).

However, this seems like roughly the critical mass needed for such a community, so I'll try to set one up. Please contact me directly², and LMK any platform preferences.

¹ https://github.com/saizai across a couple recent repos

² https://s.ai/contact

Re: Unker Non-Linear Writing System

#33

Holy shit. I'm blown away by this. Imagine the ability to use these as training inputs for language processing. Just add one more representation to the bucket of things to train models on. Very fascinating. Favoriting this.

Could you elaborate? How do you see this as relating to NLP?

FWIW, I very strongly recommend Rick Morneau's monograph Lexical semantics of a machine translation interlingua ¹. It was a major influence for me, and is squarely intended for NLP model-internal usage.

¹ http://www.rickmor.x10.mx/lexical_semantics.html

Re: Unker Non-Linear Writing System

#34
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a pure logical programming language such as MiniKanren can be seen as non-linear? There you just read in all the rules you defined and (I think) it does not matter in which order you try to match the rules when you query the system.

> Every glyph includes a number of binding points, one for each of its arguments, the semantic roles involved in its meaning. For instance, the glyph glossed as eat has two binding points—one for the thing consumed and one for the consumer. The glyph glossed as (be) fish has only one, the fish. Often we give glosses more like “X eat Y”, so as to give names for the binding points (X is eater, Y is eaten). Seems so ...…

UNLWS can definitely be described as being based on "predicate calculus" (as in formal logic). I personally have never felt it to be a very apt or helpful description — I think of it more in terms of Lakoff-style "frames". However, every glyph in UNLWS, including the all-pervasive minimal glyph (a dot, which is implicitly in any line), is a predicate.

FWIW, no this isn't how Chinese works — and it isn't ideographic. Hanzi (& Japanese kanji) have both semantic and rhyme hinting components, and aside from a few words that are nearly minimal in their use of radicals (the components), are generally vastly underspecified to get the meaning of the grapheme unless you know it.

Re: Unker Non-Linear Writing System

#35
post #9

Programming is a non linear writing system. Now that I think of it ... if you replace functions names with logograms you get a top to down writing system of sorts.

Not really. Programming is very linear in all forms I know¹.

1. There's a start point. UNLWS has none.

2. There's a mandatory canonical traversal order of the text (the compiled instruction pointer, at base). UNLWS has none.

3. Structurally — i.e. even ignoring execution — it's mainly a tree, not a graph (parent class > child class > instance > function, e.g.). There are some parts that are directed graphs, like mix-ins and some RDBs. True multigraph structure is fairly rare. UNLWS is pervasively a fully connected multigraph with some directed edges (like irrealis).

Programming is, however, similar to UNLWS in that both are isomorphic to predicate calculus (e.g. functions, like UNLWS glyphs, are n-ary predicates). I think that's what you're probably catching on.

It is an important feature… but I think you're missing the more essential nature of non-linearity.

(It took me several years to grasp enough to start making UNLWS, so don't feel too chastised. It's a very difficult concept. :p)

I believe that complex circuits (as in wiring) and flowcharts do have the non-linear nature, though. Perhaps it'd help to think of those?

¹ I don't know functional programming or constraint satisfaction systems. It's possible those are different.

Re: Unker Non-Linear Writing System

#36

Completely Offtopic: How does one get a single letter domain name? Especially with a premium tld, and even moreso for a personal blog it just seems unreal.

Anguilla permits them. I had to buy off a squatter.

But Sai is literally my full name (I'm mononymous), at the time it was affordable to buy off the squatter, and the per year registration fee isn't too high. So I think it's certainly been worth it.

Re: Unker Non-Linear Writing System

#37
post #35
post #9

Programming is a non linear writing system. Now that I think of it ... if you replace functions names with logograms you get a top to down writing system of sorts.

Not really. Programming is very linear in all forms I know¹. 1. There's a start point. UNLWS has none. 2. There's a mandatory canonical traversal order of the text (the compiled instruction pointer, at base). UNLWS has none. 3. Structurally — i.e. even ignoring execution — it's mainly a tree, not a graph (parent class > child class > instance > function, e.g.). There are some parts that are directed graphs, like mix-…

The actor model is non-linear. Reading the code gives you almost no clue on the order of execution.

Re: Unker Non-Linear Writing System

#38
Somewhat related: Sylabitsa, a Hangul-style syllabary for Polish. Described in its current rendition in [1], but previous ideas of the author included vertically stacking syllables, thus making the alphabet potentially infinite and non-linear.

[1]: https://sites.google.com/site/qrczakmk/sylabitsa

Re: Unker Non-Linear Writing System

#39

After going through the phase of admiring this new and intellectually stimulating thing, I went on with an exercise of imagination about how it would look like for a society to have evolved somehow into using this at large. Each new word (or at least morpheme) has to have its own signature/ideogram that has to be learned and remembered. For a lexicon of any practical use that would mean thousands of ideograms. That f…

So, like, Chinese? They seem to be doing okay.

Re: Unker Non-Linear Writing System

#40

After going through the phase of admiring this new and intellectually stimulating thing, I went on with an exercise of imagination about how it would look like for a society to have evolved somehow into using this at large. Each new word (or at least morpheme) has to have its own signature/ideogram that has to be learned and remembered. For a lexicon of any practical use that would mean thousands of ideograms. That f…

Ideograms clearly can work, and pretty dang well, as demonstrated by ancient China. Some phonetic representation would be nice too. Either way, you'd likely see common structures evolving into ideograms. Very interesting.

FWIW, we deliberately decided to have no phonetic representation at all, to avoid any linearizing influence.

Yes, it would need a large number of glyphs. Not so many as speculated above, though — e.g. we have one glyph that covers communicate, say, tell, hear, speech (all senses), etc. (with some mix-ins for sensory modality); another one that covers give, receive, gift, sell, etc.

Linear languages with European structure need way more words, because the syntax isn't very able to represent the shared concept between these with a single word. We can.

And yes, common structures do get turned into glyphs, or reduced forms.

We also have a barely-explored concept about glyphs being fractal (i.e. if you zoom in, it's actually the shape of an underlying utterance whose syntax "draws" the higher order glyph). This presumably would be a sort of literary or poetic form. (I have composed one very simple example.¹)

¹ https://s.ai/poetry/distant_love

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