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Rediscovering the Small Web

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31–40 of 126 posts

Re: Rediscovering the Small Web

#31
post #2

When I picture it in my head I think of the early web as more of a library. Over time it has transitioned into a shopping mall. If I continue with this thought exercise, a lot of the big indoor shopping malls around me have been knocked down and replaced with standalone outdoor stores (walled gardens?). I'm not sure where things are going next.

I think there have been two main changes that have hurt the web: 1) The shift from spammy shit content as something to squash to something to allow and even promote over better content , provided it follows certain (Google's) rules. This shift (in terms of Google's behavior) happened ~2008-2010 and we haven't seen a period of spammy crap content getting heavily downranked since then, like we used to when they were st…

I don't think search engines are promoting spammy $#!+ content per se; what they're doing is heavily promoting newer content that's relevant to the most common search queries, as this gives them the only real hope of staying ahead of the spam. Of course the "small", long-lasting, independent Web is heavily disadvantaged by this shift.

One development that would be good for small web sites to look into is schema.org linked-data formats. Those might simply be too effort-intensive for the spammers to adopt (at a high level of detail) and perhaps too much of a commitment to quality and transparency (they would have to actively forge the info, which would leave them open to bans given the lack of plausible deniability), so they might become a viable signal of quality and lead to higher visibility in SERP.

(Similar for things like proper separation of style from content, that have always been advocated for in the web-standards community but are not really commercially viable.)

I'm not quite sure if others have experimented with this stuff already, but it seems worth trying.

Re: Rediscovering the Small Web

#32

This is a great post and makes me miss this type of content. I created a subreddit recently to help with the discovery problem and posted it on HN earlier this week. Show HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23287286 Subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/hnblogs/ It’s been going well so far, only a small solution to a big problem, but it’s been fun to discover a lot of interesting blogs from people in this communit…

Oh good, I was actually looking for something like this. I joined, thanks for sharing!

Re: Rediscovering the Small Web

#34

If you're interested in recent innovations on this front: (rather than just retreading the same Web as before) * Beaker ( https://beakerbrowser.com ) the peer-to-peer browser just released their beta release - and it has some exciting features. Particularly the built-in editor, meaning you can edit, serve and read your pages all from the browser. (Blogging in Beaker is as simple as visiting: hyper://a8e9bd0f4df60ed52…

I love Fraidycat - it gave me the final push to delete my twitter account I had since 2007: let's me keep following the half-dozen accounts I actually cared about. Thanks for your work!

Re: Rediscovering the Small Web

#35
"The Commercial Web (of Marketing)

There has always been a place for commerce and marketing on the web."

Not really true as I remember it. The web opened up to the public in 1993. There was no commerce and marketing in the beginning. Even by 1996 while commerce and marketing may have existed, e.g., Amazon founded in 1995, its place was in the background. As I rememember the early web, the foreground, the "starting point" or "portal", was something like Yahoo! You had to pick a topic (direction) that you wanted to go in. For example, if you were after music, you might end up browsing the Internet Underground Music Archive. The "front page" of the portal was predominantly non-commercial, mostly generic headings for topics. If you wanted to search out something commercial, no doubt you could but the initial starting point was intellectual curiosity. This is IMO what has been lost over time with regard to web use: intellectual curiosity and the ability to actually satisfy it. (A fun tangent here is the collections of inane queries that people type into Google. These are simultaneously hilarious and disturbing.)

As an experiment have a look at the Yahoo! page today. It is full of low quality mainstream "news". There is zero attention to intellectual curiosity. Nothing to see here, folks, but here is the latest news. For part 2 of the experiment, run a Google search for the term "music". The results are dominated by YouTube. Every result is directly or indirectly commercial (either selling something or conducting surveillance and serving ads), except one: Wikipedia. The chances of someone new to the web not following a link to YouTube or some other Google-controlled domain would seem almost nil.

The "onboarding" process for new web users is very different today than it was in the early 1990's. Perhaps it is still possible to approach the web with a sense of awe and wonder, pondering "What is out there?" However a new web user is scant likely to end up on a non-commercial website besides Wikipedia. What is out there? Surveillance, ads and an endless supply of soon-to-be-obsolete Javascript du jour.

Re: Rediscovering the Small Web

#36
post #35

"The Commercial Web (of Marketing) There has always been a place for commerce and marketing on the web." Not really true as I remember it. The web opened up to the public in 1993. There was no commerce and marketing in the beginning. Even by 1996 while commerce and marketing may have existed, e.g., Amazon founded in 1995, its place was in the background. As I rememember the early web, the foreground, the "starting po…

The old Web directories had a "Business" section where everything commercial or sale-related was listed. Then sub-levels of any other section, e.g. "Music", would include a cross-reference to the same topic in the "Business" hierarchy. But the default assumption was that you were looking for non-commercial, or at most ad-supported sites.

Re: Rediscovering the Small Web

#37

This is a great post and makes me miss this type of content. I created a subreddit recently to help with the discovery problem and posted it on HN earlier this week. Show HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23287286 Subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/hnblogs/ It’s been going well so far, only a small solution to a big problem, but it’s been fun to discover a lot of interesting blogs from people in this communit…

Excellent! Joined, thank you!

Re: Rediscovering the Small Web

#38

If you're interested in recent innovations on this front: (rather than just retreading the same Web as before) * Beaker ( https://beakerbrowser.com ) the peer-to-peer browser just released their beta release - and it has some exciting features. Particularly the built-in editor, meaning you can edit, serve and read your pages all from the browser. (Blogging in Beaker is as simple as visiting: hyper://a8e9bd0f4df60ed52…

Beaker came to my mind immediately as well when reading this article :) It sounds so much like the perfect fit for the author.

The new beta has been quite depressing for me, as all my personal apps stopped working due to their complete rewrite of their API. I don't know if I'll ever be willing to start it all over again.

But for anyone who hasn't already played with it, I totally recommend it. It feels like the web we should have had.

Re: Rediscovering the Small Web

#39
post #28

there's also pubnix (public unix-like servers), gopher, and a new protocol called gemini (which adds simple links and viewer-owned formatting to to gopher). i think there's certainly something to the idea behind more restrictions, with just enough rather than plenty. i almost want to give myself nothing but wikipedia, api docs, and “small web” and pubnix. i'm not sure that i can give up hn or its ilk (but the ratio o…

Yes, I'm discovering the newer pubnix now (only knew of sdf.org previously). Looks interesting, if a little overkill for what I'm looking for. Glad they exist though.

You can perhaps try a week of _mostly_ limiting yourself to those and see how it goes? I personally do a mix of the "normal" web and more niche stuff out there.

Re: Rediscovering the Small Web

#40
This is a great article, the kind of stuff I find interesting on HN.

Some of the "old school" web style clashes with my aesthetic sensibilities these days -- a lot of words to say I find it somewhat ugly! -- but I miss its hobbyist, non-commercial aspect. A lot of hobby style content I find interesting has moved to YouTube or Facebook these days, and everyone who's been reading HN is aware of the lack of control authors have over those platforms...

I found myself nodding in agreement to a lot of what the author was saying.

I don't miss the "geocities look" though!

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