Coinbase will be a remote-first company • Hacker News Board

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#31

Post by Cookingboy » Thu, May 21, 2020, 8:20 AM UTC

rainyMammoth wrote: post #27

Cookingboy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As for "career ambition", you can make plenty of money or a modest income from remote jobs. Beyond jobs, you can easily own an online business or some other digital capital through the same infrastructure. There is more to life and to work than a high salary. Greed is not a virtue. >You don't have to sell your soul and most of the waking hours of your life to commute to an office, deal with the attached bullshit, an…

your comment is dismissive. I have been in Silicon Valley for 5+ years and I agree with his assessment. Culture here is fake and hollow. A lot of hypocrisy. I have been swallowed by the corporate machine and endured the bullshit commute, bullshit office and bullshit tasks that made me busy the whole day without making me really rpoductive. Now that I'm working from home, I'm finally realizing what I missed out on. My…

>I have been in Silicon Valley for 5+ years and I agree with his assessment. Culture here is fake and hollow. A lot of hypocrisy.

I've been in SV for more than twice as long as you have and have worked for companies ranging from YC startups to FAANG, I'll say using a blanket statement to describe the culture of SV is pretty silly.

Are there fakery, hollowness and hypocrisy? Absolutely. But there is also so much more to it.

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#32

Post by xiphias2 » Thu, May 21, 2020, 8:21 AM UTC

Cookingboy wrote: post #7

I'm really curious, how many people actually prefer WFH permanently vs. just having the flexibility to WFH when wanted. If I wanted to stay home forever I'd have just taken a remote consulting job a long time ago, but I enjoy going to office and there is a lot of benefits that you don't get from being remote 100%. I've also made very good friends at work and I see my coworkers as much more than just another GitHub ac…

For me the biggest problem with working in an office was that tech hubs concentrate men, so it completely destroyed my dating life for years. My low social status of being just an average looking male outside work also made me depressed so much, I never ever want to feel that again.

Also working in an office was the best with a small team in a separate room with a nice view, the noise from open office plans is so bad for people like me, who can't work with music in the background on the headphones.

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#33

Post by tjbiddle » Thu, May 21, 2020, 8:21 AM UTC

Cookingboy wrote: post #7

I'm really curious, how many people actually prefer WFH permanently vs. just having the flexibility to WFH when wanted. If I wanted to stay home forever I'd have just taken a remote consulting job a long time ago, but I enjoy going to office and there is a lot of benefits that you don't get from being remote 100%. I've also made very good friends at work and I see my coworkers as much more than just another GitHub ac…

More choice is always better, in my opinion. So I'd prefer flexibility to be WFH.

My first "real" job had WFH options for T/H which I regularly took advantage of, and from April 2014 on I've been 100% remote.

I rode out a few consulting gigs and then went full-time for a NYC company, my requirement was that I was able to WFH - and then I stayed living in Cincinnati at the time.

I very thoroughly enjoyed my all-expenses paid quarterly trips to NYC, and I very much enjoyed not having to have any commute. I worked from home or various coffee shops near me - and got to make a few friends that way.

Now I run my own e-commerce business. The business is registered in the US, all customers and business relations are all US based. I live in Bali, Indonesia and my two employees live near Manilla in the Philippines - so we're 100% remote.

I love having the option to work from home, explore the copious cafes and restaurants often, as well as occasionally will go to co-working centers. It all depends on my mood - but I have the option for it all!

I have the added benefit of living in a heavily dense for remote workers - so whenever I want to be social and co-work, I can call any number of people to hang out.

It's given me the option to travel the world, work at any time of the day I want, save countless hours on "meetings", saved a fortune in commuting hours and gas - I could go on.

So I fully empathize with enjoying the work environment, but I also love having all my benefits of working remotely. If you're 100% remote and struggling with the social aspect - you just need to find something that works for you.

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#34

Post by rainyMammoth » Thu, May 21, 2020, 8:21 AM UTC

JSavageOne wrote: post #29

Cookingboy wrote: post #7

I'm really curious, how many people actually prefer WFH permanently vs. just having the flexibility to WFH when wanted. If I wanted to stay home forever I'd have just taken a remote consulting job a long time ago, but I enjoy going to office and there is a lot of benefits that you don't get from being remote 100%. I've also made very good friends at work and I see my coworkers as much more than just another GitHub ac…

100% prefer remote work (not to be confused with WFH. Remote work != WFH). It's not necessarily the WFH aspect actually, it's more the "live anywhere you want" part, not having to commute, and the "avoiding all the office bullshit" aspects. Regarding location: I don't have roots in SF/NYC/Seattle where all the well-paying tech jobs are, and have no desire to make any of those cities my home. Lived in NYC 5 years, tha…

Couldn't agree more. Offices are needed for "controlling" reasons. Bosses and middle manager types want to make sure you are around doing your thing.

You also need to realize that offices are not made to be productive but are made so that people can escape their daily life: Kids at home, or wife that you don't want to see anymore. Just check all the people with kids that cannot wait to go back to the office.

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#35

Post by dannyw » Thu, May 21, 2020, 8:25 AM UTC

cbg0 wrote: post #25

Cookingboy wrote: post #7

I'm really curious, how many people actually prefer WFH permanently vs. just having the flexibility to WFH when wanted. If I wanted to stay home forever I'd have just taken a remote consulting job a long time ago, but I enjoy going to office and there is a lot of benefits that you don't get from being remote 100%. I've also made very good friends at work and I see my coworkers as much more than just another GitHub ac…

> maybe I'm the exception to the rule and most engineers just want to stay focused on their immediate work and not leave the house and minimize human interaction This is a bit of a false premise, I've been working from home for over a decade and I don't mind human interaction at all, I get plenty of it when hanging out with friends and family, but I do prefer my office space at home to some open space office with lot…

I don’t follow the second part of your argument.

Here in Australia, plenty of grads are just as good as someone who might get hired at FANNG. How much are they paid? With the exchange rates taken into account, half as much.

What I think we’ll see is a reduction in SF salaries and CoL, and an increase in ex-SF salaries and CoL.

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#36

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 21, 2020, 8:27 AM UTC

Cookingboy wrote: post #24

noneeeed wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think flexibility is the key. All the things that are touted as pros and cons of both WFH and office working are highly dependent on the individual, the company, the type of work, people's housing situation, disability, and many small life choices. Whenever this topic comes up I'm always rather disappointed to see how many people struggle with the idea that their situation is not everyone's situation, and make blan…

The problem is that it likely snowballs one way or another if you allow full flexibility. If more people initially chose to work at the office, then the minority WFH people will inevitably be at a disadvantage and they would feel potentially left out of a lot of developments that take place in the office. Then they may end up forcing themselves to go to the office from time to time or move to a different company wher…

[deleted]

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#37

Post by cbg0 » Thu, May 21, 2020, 8:29 AM UTC

Cookingboy wrote: post #30

cbg0 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maybe I'm the exception to the rule and most engineers just want to stay focused on their immediate work and not leave the house and minimize human interaction This is a bit of a false premise, I've been working from home for over a decade and I don't mind human interaction at all, I get plenty of it when hanging out with friends and family, but I do prefer my office space at home to some open space office with lot…

>I do prefer my office space at home to some open space office with lots of noise and people constantly coming by and asking for stuff. Haha so you do dislike human interaction to some degree, or at least human interaction beyond family and friends. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, but a lot of people thrive, if not prefer those "noisy environment" you described. >Great developers will not work for cheap re…

I realize you really want to drive down this concept of disliking human interaction because you've made your mind that if you want to work from home this must be true, but being bothered by people that interrupt you when you're doing work doesn't mean you dislike human interaction.

Also, I don't really know any software engineers that "thrive" in noisy environments. If you need noise cancelling headphones to thrive, then the environment is definitely an issue.

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#38

Post by dannyw » Thu, May 21, 2020, 8:30 AM UTC

rainyMammoth wrote: post #34

JSavageOne wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% prefer remote work (not to be confused with WFH. Remote work != WFH). It's not necessarily the WFH aspect actually, it's more the "live anywhere you want" part, not having to commute, and the "avoiding all the office bullshit" aspects. Regarding location: I don't have roots in SF/NYC/Seattle where all the well-paying tech jobs are, and have no desire to make any of those cities my home. Lived in NYC 5 years, tha…

Couldn't agree more. Offices are needed for "controlling" reasons. Bosses and middle manager types want to make sure you are around doing your thing. You also need to realize that offices are not made to be productive but are made so that people can escape their daily life: Kids at home, or wife that you don't want to see anymore. Just check all the people with kids that cannot wait to go back to the office.

That’s so cynical.

Offices are made to be productive, including by aggregating everyone into one physical place and fitting it out with functional, ergonomic and productive equipment — beyond your desk, it also includes whiteboards, meeting rooms, and even the water cooler.

It’s also a place of team and social bonding. Am I the only one that misses drinks with my colleagues, or dinner at a local restaurant after work?

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#39

Post by HatchedLake721 » Thu, May 21, 2020, 8:31 AM UTC

dannyw wrote: post #35

cbg0 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maybe I'm the exception to the rule and most engineers just want to stay focused on their immediate work and not leave the house and minimize human interaction This is a bit of a false premise, I've been working from home for over a decade and I don't mind human interaction at all, I get plenty of it when hanging out with friends and family, but I do prefer my office space at home to some open space office with lot…

I don’t follow the second part of your argument. Here in Australia, plenty of grads are just as good as someone who might get hired at FANNG. How much are they paid? With the exchange rates taken into account, half as much. What I think we’ll see is a reduction in SF salaries and CoL, and an increase in ex-SF salaries and CoL.

Graduates are not “great developers” as mentioned in the second paragraph. Graduates can’t dictate anything, they don’t have the necessary experience and knowledge.

Once you’re a professional and know your worth, then you know what’s a cheap salary and what’s not.

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#40

Post by cbg0 » Thu, May 21, 2020, 8:31 AM UTC

dannyw wrote: post #35

cbg0 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maybe I'm the exception to the rule and most engineers just want to stay focused on their immediate work and not leave the house and minimize human interaction This is a bit of a false premise, I've been working from home for over a decade and I don't mind human interaction at all, I get plenty of it when hanging out with friends and family, but I do prefer my office space at home to some open space office with lot…

I don’t follow the second part of your argument. Here in Australia, plenty of grads are just as good as someone who might get hired at FANNG. How much are they paid? With the exchange rates taken into account, half as much. What I think we’ll see is a reduction in SF salaries and CoL, and an increase in ex-SF salaries and CoL.

I think you're kind of comparing apples to oranges, the discussion isn't about how much for example Google Australia pays employees in Australia, but how much Google USA would pay remote employees working across the US.