How do you know whether you need to fix Impostor Syndrome or Dunning-Kruger?
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Impostor Syndrome in Programming
31–40 of 40 posts
Re: Impostor Syndrome in Programming
#32I don't know if I should be worried or not because I've never felt like an "impostor": I'm sure I know what I'm doing, because I spent a lot of time making sure I understand everything from the ground up, and working form first-principles to more complicated topics. If it's on a computer, I can figure out how it works because I know how computers work. What I do fear is that everybody else is judging me when I don't…
I don't know if I should be worried or not because I've never felt like an "impostor" You don't need to be worried. What I do fear is that everybody else is judging me when I don't know the answer immediately, without spending any time researching, to every question. I think there's little to fear here. Most people's judgement of you doesn't matter that much. Hopefully you have a good enough relationship with the res…
> Are they implying this? Are you inferring this?
It's usually more along the lines of anxious, concerned looks coupled with phrases like, "how long will it take you to learn it", or "well, what part don't you understand", or "Have you tried asking Bob, he knows that".
Re: Impostor Syndrome in Programming
#33I get an imposter feeling not because I feel I know nothing but because I feel like the tech world is closing its gates to me in particular. When I am told by my software developer friends how quickly I've learned in the last year and when I get lots of users using my projects that reinforces the idea that I would be a great developer. But then when I apply for jobs and just keep getting rejection after rejection, it…
Just keep at it. If you really learn quickly, then in a year or two you'll know enough for that to make any difference to a potential employer. Just continue what you're doing, write code, build projects, look out for opportunities to build your personal brand, but above all else, continue to learn. You'll see that, as the saying (Japanese, I think) goes, "even the top has a top" - what you consider a large amount of knowledge today will seem like a drop in a bucket in a year, not to mention in two. By 2025 you'll be, for better or worse, spammed by recruiters on Linkedin just like the rest of us.
You can expand your knowledge and hone your skills practically without limits, and there's no reason to stop just because you're out of school/landed a job. Most good developers never stop, and have been doing this for their whole careers, some for decades - while you've been at it for a year. I don't want to discourage you - it's a good start, but it's just a start.
Re: Impostor Syndrome in Programming
#34I get an imposter feeling not because I feel I know nothing but because I feel like the tech world is closing its gates to me in particular. When I am told by my software developer friends how quickly I've learned in the last year and when I get lots of users using my projects that reinforces the idea that I would be a great developer. But then when I apply for jobs and just keep getting rejection after rejection, it…
Just keep at it. If you really learn quickly, then in a year or two you'll know enough for that to make any difference to a potential employer. Just continue what you're doing, write code, build projects, look out for opportunities to build your personal brand, but above all else, continue to learn. You'll see that, as the saying (Japanese, I think) goes, "even the top has a top" - what you consider a large amount of…
My problem is that I feel what I need the most now is real world real job experience working with a team of developers. One year of actual software developer experience working in a team will do me more good in improving my skills than 3 years working on side projects.
I feel like I've done enough side projects to prove I'm at least not a complete hopeless case.
Re: Impostor Syndrome in Programming
#35Why is impostor syndrome seemingly more common- or discussed more frequently- in software engineering compared to other STEM disciplines and other white collar professions in general?
Re: Impostor Syndrome in Programming
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
I see the opposite almost exclusively... people that can talk a great game but can't actually write a line of code.
In my experience these people do not suffer from impostor syndrome. Although I have to admit that it could be a coping mechanism, it sounds more like Dunning-Kruger. I guess there are different symptoms of impostor syndrome. For me the comment of OP definitely resonated a lot. Not being able to express the things you know and don't know clearly blurs the lines for me to accurately value the knowledge I actually do po…
That's fair. I guess for me OP's description of imposter syndrome seems more like Generalized Anxiety Disorder.
Re: Impostor Syndrome in Programming
#37I get an imposter feeling not because I feel I know nothing but because I feel like the tech world is closing its gates to me in particular. When I am told by my software developer friends how quickly I've learned in the last year and when I get lots of users using my projects that reinforces the idea that I would be a great developer. But then when I apply for jobs and just keep getting rejection after rejection, it…
>But then when I apply for jobs and just keep getting rejection after rejection, it wears me down and makes me feel like an imposter who isn't cool enough to join the club you know?
I've concluded that we aren't going to fix this. When even PhD's appear to have this same experience, you know it isn't a matter of education. For a long time I thought perhaps licensing / certification like other professions including engineering, but there are too many economic forces against that happening.
So, we're going to continue to bifurcate into companies that have the means to interview, hire, and manage software development and those that are essentially a cargo cult version of those activities. You have to basically accept that a large segment of the market for tech workers is going to belittle you, mistreat you, and it's up to you to either jump through their hoops or work really hard to find places that aren't like that.
Re: Impostor Syndrome in Programming
#38How do you know whether you need to fix Impostor Syndrome or Dunning-Kruger?
1/4 glib, 3/4 honest prediction: if you are asking the question about yourself , it's probably Impostor Syndrome at work.
Equally glib/honest response: Or Dunning-Kruger, because you are attempting to diagnose cognitive/psychological biases without formal training.
Re: Impostor Syndrome in Programming
#39I’ve been programming since I was 12. I saw “real programmers” and was convinced their feats were nothing short of magic.
And it stuck with me. I worked for a startup that got acquired by Atlassian last week, wrote their Jira Server integration which helped land Uber as a customer. But I still wasn’t a “real programmer”.
This sounds stupid, but I never became a “real programmer” in my head until I developed a Minecraft mod. I got into programming because of Minecraft and I was always amazed by the modding wizards. I tried and failed when I was 13-15 to make mods.
I recently took a crack at it 6 years later and it came easily. I realized that the modders weren’t wizards because I could do it now too.
I beat imposter syndrome by going back and doing the things I couldn’t when I started programming. Makes you realize how far you’ve come and less like a fraud.
Re: Impostor Syndrome in Programming
#40I get an imposter feeling not because I feel I know nothing but because I feel like the tech world is closing its gates to me in particular. When I am told by my software developer friends how quickly I've learned in the last year and when I get lots of users using my projects that reinforces the idea that I would be a great developer. But then when I apply for jobs and just keep getting rejection after rejection, it…
That's not Imposter Syndrome that's lack of confidence.