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$14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

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Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree although the system philosophically, at it's core, has no concept of theft, of permission, or reversal. Keys = coins.

> Keys = coins Exactly... and if you steal the keys, you are stealing the coins.

well, when you place cryptocurrency with an exchange, you're giving them the keys, no one's stealing anything.

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keys = coins Exactly... and if you steal the keys, you are stealing the coins.

Can you steal keys? Can you "steal" a song? Is it a copyright issue? IP issue? I'm genuinely curious what this concept maps onto.

Yes it's like stealing a credit card number or generating one.

Can someone steal your password?

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not your keys, not your coins™ -- with that as the core philosophy of cryptocurrency, can you even say this was stolen, let alone laundered? It sounds like the person with the keys transferred the coins into another wallet. Resolved: behaves correctly. At least, as intended anyways.

That makes sense. I guess that seems to somewhat conflict with the concept of the exchange as a service, at least for how laypeople understand currency exchanges in general. It wouldn’t surprise me if most people with exchange accounts don’t understand that coins not in their own wallet aren’t actually theirs. The exchanges don’t really make that clear to their users either, at least the ones I’ve used.

It turns out people want centralization :) I'm sure users mostly understand it but they give the keys away anyway.

Core tenant of cryptocurrencies is purely anti-human

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keys = coins Exactly... and if you steal the keys, you are stealing the coins.

Can you steal keys? Can you "steal" a song? Is it a copyright issue? IP issue? I'm genuinely curious what this concept maps onto.

Keys have value, they are not yours, you take them, you stole them.

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#35
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although that 'open email system' isn't as open in practice, since most of the big providers aren't going to accept your email if you set up your own sender.

For example which ones? For past few years I'm using Mail-in-a-Box hosted on soyoustart and can't remember any problems when sending mail to big providers. I only had to check that IP is not in spam lists initially and asked to remove it from one of them.

running email for 15+ years here, going with ditto.

many ppl get el-cheapo vps on a low-tier network, setup some new domain on a dirty IP without proper DNS records (PTR, MX, yadda), and then parrot this

emails not the easiest thing, but it's not impossible either

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#36

This is an interesting piece, and it highlights one problem I’ve noticed with crypto in general recently, which is that these kinds of investigations are largely being carried out by private entities who build platforms around this type of forensics without any real ability to go after the exchanges that have permitted this laundering. Between this and Bitfinex refusing to submit to an external auditor and other even…

In order for something to function as money, it must be fungible - every unit must be interchangeable. Bitcoin and many other cryptocurrencies lack a critical ecash property known as untraceability . This has attracted private analysis companies offering solutions for legacy identity-bound concerns even despite them being directly contrary to existing cryptocurrency conventions and desires. Ten years ago the refrain…

This is exactly why they will fail. Most of us don't want anonymous money and even more shady financial institutions. Ok with it being tied to the real identity. I fully expect govt fiat on a blockchain before any wild west money ever talked off.

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#37

This is an interesting piece, and it highlights one problem I’ve noticed with crypto in general recently, which is that these kinds of investigations are largely being carried out by private entities who build platforms around this type of forensics without any real ability to go after the exchanges that have permitted this laundering. Between this and Bitfinex refusing to submit to an external auditor and other even…

In order for something to function as money, it must be fungible - every unit must be interchangeable. Bitcoin and many other cryptocurrencies lack a critical ecash property known as untraceability . This has attracted private analysis companies offering solutions for legacy identity-bound concerns even despite them being directly contrary to existing cryptocurrency conventions and desires. Ten years ago the refrain…

Anonymity in ethereum is rapidly accelerating. Currently the best option is an on-chain mixer [1] for set amounts, but fully anonymous transaction systems are going to launch relatively soon [2]. In two years, ether is virtually certain to be the most anonymous cryptocurrency and dai (dollar stablecoin) to be the most anonymous digital dollar in existence. Anonymous digital dollar has the potential to cause quite a stir.

Coins that aim to be fully anonymous (like monero) are, counterintuitively, much worse, because they lack plausible deniability. Optional (but large enough!) anonymity on a smart-contract platform allows it: you can manufacture fake profits on a dex using anonymous funds, and then claim you never anonymized your funds - you made a speculative profit (from a much smaller fully transparent seed fund). Many, many possibilities exist in this area.

[1] https://tornado.cash/

[2] https://www.aztecprotocol.com/

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#38
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Wasn’t that whole point of these coins to begin with? The whole point was to have an open system where you dont place trust in or ask permission of someone to use. That still holds up in this scenario.

And governments can’t just print more of it at their whim.

falls under trustless

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#39
post #6

This is an interesting piece, and it highlights one problem I’ve noticed with crypto in general recently, which is that these kinds of investigations are largely being carried out by private entities who build platforms around this type of forensics without any real ability to go after the exchanges that have permitted this laundering. Between this and Bitfinex refusing to submit to an external auditor and other even…

You definitely don't need to trust these players most of the time. Your coins can sit in an offline wallet out of their reach for the majority of the time. What you use them for is liquidity. Since you probably won't find a private party to buy/sell from. Realistically if you want to buy, or sell coins you have to go through one of them. And yes that kinda sucks because none of them are trustworthy., so you have some…

>The larger problems comes from the risk they inject in the market just by existing. They will be hacked, fail KYC, or straight up scam exit with all their customers money and that will impact the value of the market as a whole.

Have you heard of Lehman Brothers? Enron? Madoff? The vast majority of scammers, criminals still use fiat. By your reasoning that would make fiat more risky.

>For my risk tolerance, crypto is completely uninvestable

It’s not really an investment. Many fiat currencies have collapsed before. IMO, risk of holding BTC was much greater when it was $1 compared to now, and as it keeps maturing and... existing... the risk is going to keep moderating.

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