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German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

hindustantimes.com

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Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#31

Post by eru »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #29
mirimir wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that seems odd. But then, I know zero about German law. I suppose that none of the charges against him warrant extradition, so they're cool with him remaining in India. But on the other hand, he has a criminal record, so they don't have to repatriate him.

I'm not convinced that is the case. I'm going to guess they can take away his citizenship if he has citizenship elsewhere. I'm not sure they can refuse a citizen without citizenship elsewhere, though. This would leave the dude stateless - and while a few countries do this to their citizens, I'm nearly certain that Germany is not one of them. Every other country - the ones where he is a foreigner - can most certainly…

Well, they'd have to let him in. But I don't think they have to arrange for his flight nor have to force him.

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#32

Post by KarlKemp »

Matt3o12_ wrote: post #30
9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany would be happy to have him board a flight to Germany, where he would be arrested on arrival, the problem is that there are (now) no flights at all. India is unwilling to let a convicted criminal in the country, but he has committed no crimes on Indian soil, so they're not arresting him. In a scenario like this there's very little the German embassy can do, it's not like they have their own private jail ready.…

There were plenty of flights to Germany at the beginning of the lockdown. They were called rescue flights and I’m sure the German government would have loved to have him on board that flight (so that they can arrest him in Germany). It’s sounded like he wanted to go to another country but couldn’t due to the lack of international flights.

It's a bit confusing, with the article saying international flights are suspended, but Delhi Departure and Bangkok arrival show flights between the two cities: https://www.bangkokairportonline.com/flight-status-arrivals-.... From there, a flight to Frankfurt leaves at 2300.

The EU also pooled their repatriation flights. He could have gotten on any French, Italian, Spanish etc. transport, space permitting.

There's obviously something wrong with this guy. And if there wasn't before, six weeks at an airport made it happen. He should just go home and for it to be credited as time served.

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#33

Post by KarlKemp »

goodcanadian wrote: post #26
Matt3o12_ wrote: post #2

> “While others were facilitated by their embassies concerned and were taken for quarantine, officials from the German embassy informed the Indian bureau of immigration that Ziebat is a wanted criminal in their country with several cases of assault and other crimes registered against him. Since he was on a foreign land, they did not take his custody." This sounds highly suspicious to me. If he is a wanted criminal, I…

The article is somewhat inconsistent. In one place, it says he has a criminal record; in another, it says he is wanted. I suspect the word "not" got left out as Germany would take him if he was wanted. Also, he wouldn't have visas for several countries as it says in the article. I think he simply doesn't want to go back to Germany and is happy to stay put until he is able to continue his travel on his terms.

There's nothing preventing you from getting several visas for as many countries as you want/can afford.

While he is apparently wanted in Germany, a run-of-the-mill assault case doesn't trigger an international arrest warrant, and there's no other system that would share such information with foreign visa offices, except possibly the US. It was shared with India in this case only after he became an "issue".

I don't quite understand what the German bureaucracy is supposedly doing differently in this case due to this arrest warrant. I'm somewhat certain that it wouldn't change anything until he sets foot on German ground again. Germany would have both an interest in him returning (for justice, and to prevent any more international embarrassment this guy might provoke), as well as a responsibility to assist him that doesn't just go away if you commit a crime.

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#34

Post by goodcanadian »

KarlKemp wrote: post #33
goodcanadian wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is somewhat inconsistent. In one place, it says he has a criminal record; in another, it says he is wanted. I suspect the word "not" got left out as Germany would take him if he was wanted. Also, he wouldn't have visas for several countries as it says in the article. I think he simply doesn't want to go back to Germany and is happy to stay put until he is able to continue his travel on his terms.

There's nothing preventing you from getting several visas for as many countries as you want/can afford. While he is apparently wanted in Germany, a run-of-the-mill assault case doesn't trigger an international arrest warrant, and there's no other system that would share such information with foreign visa offices, except possibly the US. It was shared with India in this case only after he became an "issue". I don't qu…

Exactly why I suspect he is not wanted, and has declined help from Germany. My speculation only, of course, and almost certainly based on incomplete facts.

EDIT: Of course, assuming he is wanted, that would certainly explain why he would decline German help.

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#35

Post by rsynnott »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #29
mirimir wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that seems odd. But then, I know zero about German law. I suppose that none of the charges against him warrant extradition, so they're cool with him remaining in India. But on the other hand, he has a criminal record, so they don't have to repatriate him.

I'm not convinced that is the case. I'm going to guess they can take away his citizenship if he has citizenship elsewhere. I'm not sure they can refuse a citizen without citizenship elsewhere, though. This would leave the dude stateless - and while a few countries do this to their citizens, I'm nearly certain that Germany is not one of them. Every other country - the ones where he is a foreigner - can most certainly…

There’s no indication that he has citizenship elsewhere, and you’d expect the article to mention it if he did. And, I mean, realistically, most people don’t; it’s just not very likely.

In any case, the bar for removing citizenship is typically extremely high.

Countries are usually under no particular obligation to repatriate their citizens, though, and they usually can’t force repatriation.

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#36

Post by evandijk70 »

KarlKemp wrote: post #32
Matt3o12_ wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were plenty of flights to Germany at the beginning of the lockdown. They were called rescue flights and I’m sure the German government would have loved to have him on board that flight (so that they can arrest him in Germany). It’s sounded like he wanted to go to another country but couldn’t due to the lack of international flights.

It's a bit confusing, with the article saying international flights are suspended, but Delhi Departure and Bangkok arrival show flights between the two cities: https://www.bangkokairportonline.com/flight-status-arrivals-... . From there, a flight to Frankfurt leaves at 2300. The EU also pooled their repatriation flights. He could have gotten on any French, Italian, Spanish etc. transport, space permitting. There's ob…

Is it possible that those flights are cargo-only?

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#37

Post by KarlKemp »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #29
mirimir wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that seems odd. But then, I know zero about German law. I suppose that none of the charges against him warrant extradition, so they're cool with him remaining in India. But on the other hand, he has a criminal record, so they don't have to repatriate him.

I'm not convinced that is the case. I'm going to guess they can take away his citizenship if he has citizenship elsewhere. I'm not sure they can refuse a citizen without citizenship elsewhere, though. This would leave the dude stateless - and while a few countries do this to their citizens, I'm nearly certain that Germany is not one of them. Every other country - the ones where he is a foreigner - can most certainly…

Germany's constitution specifically prohibits the taking away of citizenship––it's one of those lessons learnt from the Holocaust when German jews were systematically disenfranchised by taking away their citizenship. Quote:

Article 16

Loss of citizenship may occur only pursuant to a law and, if it occurs against the will of the person affected, only if he does not become stateless as a result.[0]

There is a very narrow exception for certain configurations of dual citizenship, but there's no reason to believe this guy has a second citizenship––his name is more German than comfortable for my tastes, and it would probably be mentioned in the article because it would draw yet another government into this comic relief of an international incident.

Come to think of it, I now kinda wish he had some interesting dual nationality. Cuban, maybe. Or North Korea, if one can dream.

0: https://www.btg-bestellservice.de/pdf/80201000.pdf

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#38

Post by vinay427 »

gglnx wrote: post #20
Matt3o12_ wrote: post #2

> “While others were facilitated by their embassies concerned and were taken for quarantine, officials from the German embassy informed the Indian bureau of immigration that Ziebat is a wanted criminal in their country with several cases of assault and other crimes registered against him. Since he was on a foreign land, they did not take his custody." This sounds highly suspicious to me. If he is a wanted criminal, I…

As a German, I don't know any law that would prohibit that he could return to Germany. The embassies organized the return flights and I read about many complications and fuck-ups, maybe that's what happened. Maybe also he wasn't registered in the "Deutschenliste" (online tool that you register as a German if you travel abroad, so you can be contacted in emergencies). The German embassy in Delhi says on their website…

He's not prohibited from returning for legal reasons. He's prevented at the moment due to an apparent lack of (direct?) flights. This isn't a normal issue with some German citizen stuck abroad who failed to register. As far as I can tell from the article, he was not planning to return to Germany as he is wanted for a crime there, and was on his way to Turkey through India when India-Turkey flights were canceled.

I imagine Indian authorities would have to cooperate with the German embassy once a flight that is to their satisfaction is available to put him on the flight.

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#40

Post by iso1631 »

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #21
Matt3o12_ wrote: post #2

> “While others were facilitated by their embassies concerned and were taken for quarantine, officials from the German embassy informed the Indian bureau of immigration that Ziebat is a wanted criminal in their country with several cases of assault and other crimes registered against him. Since he was on a foreign land, they did not take his custody." This sounds highly suspicious to me. If he is a wanted criminal, I…

Germany would be happy to have him board a flight to Germany, where he would be arrested on arrival, the problem is that there are (now) no flights at all. India is unwilling to let a convicted criminal in the country, but he has committed no crimes on Indian soil, so they're not arresting him. In a scenario like this there's very little the German embassy can do, it's not like they have their own private jail ready.…

Germany had a rescue flight from Delhi to Frankfurt at least on 27th March (and likely far more)

Only explanation is he didn't want to take the flight.

> Chris Linford, 56, a cafe owner from Derbyshire, said he and his family were among a group of about 40 British tourists on a German flight from Delhi to Frankfurt on Friday [27th March]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/31/germany-charte...

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