French court upholds order limiting Amazon deliveries amid coronavirus risk • Hacker News Board

Re: French court upholds order limiting Amazon deliveries amid coronavirus risk

#31

Post by taeric » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 3:02 PM UTC

newacct583 wrote: post #23

cm2187 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also what is odd is that we seem to have gone from “social distancing and lockdown to slow down the progression of the disease to within the capacity of the healthcare system” (flattening the curve) to “this virus is the new ebola and anyone who doesn’t have extra protection is putting their life at risk”. While at the same time the additional testing and antibody testing are confirming that the virus is marginally m…

> the virus is marginally more lethal than the common flu That's simply not true, and I don't understand how people keep repeating it. If you take the current New York study as the best available evidence, you get a symptomatic infection fatality rate of somewhere between 0.5% and 1.5%. That's an order of magnitude more dangerous than the flu.

I think some are looking at the step function on the IFR. With 90% of the deaths here in WA being people above 60, it is very misleading to look at a single population summary metric.

Put simply, this is more contagious than the flu, likely due to it being novel. It is vastly more deadly than the flu for elderly. Probably more than just an order of magnitude. That is, if you take out the people under 40 from the case rate, the IFR shoots way up. At a frightening level.

Re: French court upholds order limiting Amazon deliveries amid coronavirus risk

#32

Post by Vinnl » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 3:18 PM UTC

hedora wrote: post #22

Quanttek wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you able to derive from the article's summary that this is vague? Beyond that, we all know that "vagueness" was just an Amazon pretext to force France to allow them to operate unchecked, i.e. without providing the demanded protection and deliver any item.

If I order a collectors item XBox controller, is that an IT or high tech item? (Maybe I’m using it for Skype with patients) What about a kid’s “computer” toy, or a fart noise button? What about a fidget spinner? A stress relief toy for autistic kids? A fidget spinner incorrectly marketed for autistic kids? They have 10’s of millions of items, and for each one where their answer is different than the court’s, they get…

The point of the GP was that the actual order might not actually be this vague, which another comment [1] appears to corroborate.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22978228

Re: French court upholds order limiting Amazon deliveries amid coronavirus risk

#33

Post by user5994461 » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 3:40 PM UTC

The linked document from the court clarifies exactly which categories are opened for sale.

It's a list of 7 exact Amazon categories. Like they appear in the search bar and the left sidebar that you use to filter items. There is really no doubt possible about what's allowed.

Re: French court upholds order limiting Amazon deliveries amid coronavirus risk

#34

Post by curiousgal » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 3:52 PM UTC

alibert wrote: post #15

jefftk wrote: post #2

> the court of appeal extended the list of allowed items to include, among other things, high tech and IT goods. The court also significantly reduced the fines in case of non compliance from €1 million to €100,000 per unauthorized item "received, prepared and/or shipped." That still sounds high enough and vague enough that I expect Amazon will keep their French distribution centers closed for now.

They extended the closure until Tuesday. But I believe the general public doesn't really notice it because orders are still being taken and delivered via, I suppose, distribution centers outside France. Friend ordered multiple things last Saturday (supposed to be closed) and he received some packages the next Thursday and today too (Saturday).

Yup, everything is normal, some prices are even cheaper than normal since they're being filled by centers in the Netherlands/UK. All of my orders arrived within 3 days even though the estimates were longer.

Re: French court upholds order limiting Amazon deliveries amid coronavirus risk

#35

Post by techslave » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 3:52 PM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #33

The linked document from the court clarifies exactly which categories are opened for sale. It's a list of 7 exact Amazon categories. Like they appear in the search bar and the left sidebar that you use to filter items. There is really no doubt possible about what's allowed.

sounds like there is still extreme room for question. like how 3p sellers are now putting electronics like flash drives into the kitchen item categories?

Re: French court upholds order limiting Amazon deliveries amid coronavirus risk

#36

Post by rat9988 » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

jefftk wrote: post #2

> the court of appeal extended the list of allowed items to include, among other things, high tech and IT goods. The court also significantly reduced the fines in case of non compliance from €1 million to €100,000 per unauthorized item "received, prepared and/or shipped." That still sounds high enough and vague enough that I expect Amazon will keep their French distribution centers closed for now.

The ruling has never been vague, except for the HN commenters who didn't read the ruling but a summary of it.

Re: French court upholds order limiting Amazon deliveries amid coronavirus risk

#37

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

jefftk wrote: post #18

cm2187 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also what is odd is that we seem to have gone from “social distancing and lockdown to slow down the progression of the disease to within the capacity of the healthcare system” (flattening the curve) to “this virus is the new ebola and anyone who doesn’t have extra protection is putting their life at risk”. While at the same time the additional testing and antibody testing are confirming that the virus is marginally m…

> additional testing and antibody testing are confirming that the virus is marginally more lethal than the common flu 15,411 people have died of covid in NYC, though excess death numbers suggest that this is an undercount and it's more like 19,200. [1] The population of NYC is 8.4M. If everyone in NYC had been exposed this would give a death rate of ~0.18%, or ~0.23% after adjusting for excess deaths. Antibody tests…

[deleted]

Re: French court upholds order limiting Amazon deliveries amid coronavirus risk

#38

Post by lsaferite » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

techslave wrote: post #35

user5994461 wrote: post #33

The linked document from the court clarifies exactly which categories are opened for sale. It's a list of 7 exact Amazon categories. Like they appear in the search bar and the left sidebar that you use to filter items. There is really no doubt possible about what's allowed.

sounds like there is still extreme room for question. like how 3p sellers are now putting electronics like flash drives into the kitchen item categories?

It was items in those categories as of a specific date.

Re: French court upholds order limiting Amazon deliveries amid coronavirus risk

#39

Post by Y-bar » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

hedora wrote: post #27

Is equal protection under the law a thing in France? If so, they presumably need to apply the same standards to all warehouses and distributors, right?

As mentioned elsewhere in this discussion: 42 companies have received injunctions.

Re: French court upholds order limiting Amazon deliveries amid coronavirus risk

#40

Post by downerending » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 6:20 PM UTC

alibert wrote: post #15

jefftk wrote: post #2

> the court of appeal extended the list of allowed items to include, among other things, high tech and IT goods. The court also significantly reduced the fines in case of non compliance from €1 million to €100,000 per unauthorized item "received, prepared and/or shipped." That still sounds high enough and vague enough that I expect Amazon will keep their French distribution centers closed for now.

They extended the closure until Tuesday. But I believe the general public doesn't really notice it because orders are still being taken and delivered via, I suppose, distribution centers outside France. Friend ordered multiple things last Saturday (supposed to be closed) and he received some packages the next Thursday and today too (Saturday).

It seems rather odd that the order would not apply to things delivered from outside the country.

Is this a general way to avoid regulations? (i.e., France only receives from Netherlands, and Netherlands only receives from France)