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Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

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Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#31

Post by MandieD »

leonixyz wrote: post #13
nkkollaw wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RAI is Italy's state-owned TV channel(s). It's controlled by the party that is governing, and has all the problems of anything that is state-run, including a huge potential for inefficiencies, bureaucracy, and at times corruption. Given the quality level of the "experts" used by the government in this pandemic, I wouldn't give it any credit.

State-run doesn't mean anything... BBC is also state-run. It goes to the reputation of the single journalist. In this case the journalist is just citing Frank Hartig, "Oberarzt der Universitätsklinik Innsbruck" I don't have the knowledge to judge his papers and have an opinion about his credibility, but someone else might: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Hartig

He's the head of emergency intake for the University of Innsbruck's hospital, one of the main medical schools in Austria and the state of Tyrol's main hospital, so definitely not some random crank.

This is the hospital you're flown to if something really bad happens while skiing in Tyrol.

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#32

Post by nicoburns »

nil-sec wrote: post #20
Funes- wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we are still at the "those people were going to die within a year anyway" phase. No, we are not. Young and healthy people are dying too. And that's with global confinement taking place. Just imagine in what kind of hell we would be if people were still roaming around freely; heaps of people would die just because they wouldn't have access to sanitary devices (ventilators, for instance) nor medicine. In any case, if…

There is a trend here on HN to react very cautiously and critically to studies showing “positive” results, I.e. lower apparent death rate, preliminary evidence for drug efficacy etc. This is a good thing but it should be applied in equal measure to everything. This doesn’t happen as this post shows. Where does your believe that healthy people die come from? Why is it okay to make this statement in such vigor as you d…

Here in the UK there are news stories everyday in the mainstream news outlets of nurses and doctors dying. Some of whom were young and otherwise healthy.

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#33

Post by rpiguy »

Funes- wrote: post #8
vmception wrote: post #2

> It is now undisputed that Covid-19 should be taken seriously as a serious illness. This is heavily disputed. I wonder what the threshold really is for changing that idea. Now that the death numbers are greater than the flu, we are still at the "those people were going to die within a year anyway" phase, and the "I am okay and have a BMI less than 30 so therefore people like me are okay" phase. Been watching the stu…

>we are still at the "those people were going to die within a year anyway" phase. No, we are not. Young and healthy people are dying too. And that's with global confinement taking place. Just imagine in what kind of hell we would be if people were still roaming around freely; heaps of people would die just because they wouldn't have access to sanitary devices (ventilators, for instance) nor medicine. In any case, if…

Sweden doesn't look like hell. 99% of deaths in Italy were over 65. Study after study, LA, Massachusetts, Chicago, etc. show that many, many more people have gotten COVID asymptomatically and the actual mortality rate thus far is miniscule.

Death projections continue to be revised down in the US and almost everywhere outside of NYC is far behind expected deaths and hospitalizations. NYC is sharing their ventilators with NJ because they don't need as many as expected.

At this point it is the alarmists arguing against evidence and actual data, now that we have some. It is rather amusing to behold.

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#34

Post by DanBC »

vmception wrote: post #2

> It is now undisputed that Covid-19 should be taken seriously as a serious illness. This is heavily disputed. I wonder what the threshold really is for changing that idea. Now that the death numbers are greater than the flu, we are still at the "those people were going to die within a year anyway" phase, and the "I am okay and have a BMI less than 30 so therefore people like me are okay" phase. Been watching the stu…

> we are still at the "those people were going to die within a year anyway" phase, and the "I am okay and have a BMI less than 30 so therefore people like me are okay" phase.

That doesn't appear to be true if we look at the UK ICU data. BMI https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports

https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/c9b...

     Body mass index, n (%) [N=4811]
Over 60% of people admitted to ICU for Covid-19 have BMI under 30.

When we look at frailty we see that 90% of people admitted to ITU were able to live without any assistance in their day to day life before being admitted. (Although we don't know how many frail people were not admitted to ITU because of their frailty).

We know that Covid-19 is causing excess mortality in people who are not old and don't have comorbidities. We don't know yet how much, but it's wrong to say that covid-19 isn't a problem for this group.

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#35

Post by MandieD »

Important takeaway: the head of emergency intake for Tyrol's largest hospital says that no matter how healthy you were or how minor your Covid-19 case was, do not go diving again without being examined by a doctor who specializes in diver physicals, due to the serious lung damage he has seen in previously-healthy recreational divers who had Covid-19 cases minor enough that they recovered at home, several weeks after they were declared recovered.

(edited to add) This hospital probably has seen a higher proportion of "minor" cases in previously-healthy, non-elderly patients because a lot of the early non-Italy spread of Covid-19 was at various Tyrolean ski resorts - most notably, Ischgl.

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#36

Post by DanBC »

nil-sec wrote: post #20
Funes- wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we are still at the "those people were going to die within a year anyway" phase. No, we are not. Young and healthy people are dying too. And that's with global confinement taking place. Just imagine in what kind of hell we would be if people were still roaming around freely; heaps of people would die just because they wouldn't have access to sanitary devices (ventilators, for instance) nor medicine. In any case, if…

There is a trend here on HN to react very cautiously and critically to studies showing “positive” results, I.e. lower apparent death rate, preliminary evidence for drug efficacy etc. This is a good thing but it should be applied in equal measure to everything. This doesn’t happen as this post shows. Where does your believe that healthy people die come from? Why is it okay to make this statement in such vigor as you d…

Have a look at the ICNARC reports. These show that lower BMI and no comorbidities is low risk, but not no risk. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#37

Post by [deleted] »

detaro wrote: post #28
wbronitsky wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is incredibly difficult to read posts like this in good faith. More and more people come here to tell us not to believe facts, to disregard what our eyes and ears tell us. It is not hard to connect the dots

You do realize that the commenter does not hold those opinions, but gives them as examples of opinions other people voice? And then people started arguing with the content of the examples, which is a bit pointless when nobody even claims their content is true.

[deleted]

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#38

Post by rpiguy »

nicoburns wrote: post #32
nil-sec wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a trend here on HN to react very cautiously and critically to studies showing “positive” results, I.e. lower apparent death rate, preliminary evidence for drug efficacy etc. This is a good thing but it should be applied in equal measure to everything. This doesn’t happen as this post shows. Where does your believe that healthy people die come from? Why is it okay to make this statement in such vigor as you d…

Here in the UK there are news stories everyday in the mainstream news outlets of nurses and doctors dying. Some of whom were young and otherwise healthy.

The current theory is that viral load is a factor in the severity of your infection. If you are exposed to it often and in larger quantities, you get a more severe infection. Therefore, healthcare workers are more likely to get a severe infection.

For example, the nursing home workers in Seattle were using CPAP machines on their patients that aerosolized the virus and exposed them all to large amounts of the virus. Theory also applies to subway riders, as outbreaks appear far more severe in areas that rely on public transport with NYC infections following the subway stops with a relatively high correlation.

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#39

Post by nil-sec »

nicoburns wrote: post #32
nil-sec wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a trend here on HN to react very cautiously and critically to studies showing “positive” results, I.e. lower apparent death rate, preliminary evidence for drug efficacy etc. This is a good thing but it should be applied in equal measure to everything. This doesn’t happen as this post shows. Where does your believe that healthy people die come from? Why is it okay to make this statement in such vigor as you d…

Here in the UK there are news stories everyday in the mainstream news outlets of nurses and doctors dying. Some of whom were young and otherwise healthy.

Yes, there is anecdotal evidence that healthy people with high viral loads can die from this virus. It is a good null hypothesis to assume this virus could kill you. Everyone should be cautious right now. That does not mean it should be treated, and promoted, as a scientific fact to shut down discussions about the hypothesis.

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#40

Post by DangerousPie »

squiggleblaz wrote: post #12
vmception wrote: post #2

> It is now undisputed that Covid-19 should be taken seriously as a serious illness. This is heavily disputed. I wonder what the threshold really is for changing that idea. Now that the death numbers are greater than the flu, we are still at the "those people were going to die within a year anyway" phase, and the "I am okay and have a BMI less than 30 so therefore people like me are okay" phase. Been watching the stu…

Shame this piece was downvoted so hard. Downvoters may agree with pm_me_ur_fullzz that people who dispute the seriousness of covid-19 are wrong, but downvoting the person who says "there are people out there who are wrong" will not cause those people who are wrong to disappear. If you want to make a problem go away, the first step is to talk about the problem.

Downvoting makes it obvious to any casual reader that the comment is heavily disputed and should not be relied upon.
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