Employers who use software to take screenshots of workers’ computers • Hacker News Board

Re: Employers who use software to take screenshots of workers’ computers

#31

Post by throwaway888abc » Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:04 PM UTC

benjohnson wrote: post #17

As a company owner, I've resisted the temptation to do this. We did make it easy for our employees to behave themselves by making it very easy to 'clock in' and 'clock out.' I told everybody that this is a time to be close to family - if your child wants to play ball in the middle of the day, then go ahead! Just clock out before you do. Get your 8 hours in and document your work. Thankfully everybody has responded we…

Respect to your actions. Valuable lesson to others. You should put it somewhere online as part of sane remote work guide.

Re: Employers who use software to take screenshots of workers’ computers

#32

Post by mrbgty » Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:06 PM UTC

benjohnson wrote: post #17

As a company owner, I've resisted the temptation to do this. We did make it easy for our employees to behave themselves by making it very easy to 'clock in' and 'clock out.' I told everybody that this is a time to be close to family - if your child wants to play ball in the middle of the day, then go ahead! Just clock out before you do. Get your 8 hours in and document your work. Thankfully everybody has responded we…

Good to hear that you care about your employees and understand that he likes the chats.

Generally, IMO, you shouldn't be hiring people and then checking up on them and their hours to keep them honest. There's better uses of time. That time spent tracking and keeping them honest doesn't really improve you, them or the company.

Re: Employers who use software to take screenshots of workers’ computers

#33

Post by SilasX » Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:09 PM UTC

humaniania wrote: post #28

codesuela wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems pretty easy to game for a software engineer: 1. Write code for the project and record mouse clicks and keystrokes 2. Replay keystrokes at .5 speed inside a mirrored VM a more sophisticated tool could also vary speed and add typos.

Or just play a full screen slide show of various spreadsheets and documents. Will they really study the screenshots that closely to see the repetition?

Sure, spot-check and scrutize a small fraction.

(Not to say I endorse this means of tracking employees' time, I just don't think that's a big impediment to this method.)

Re: Employers who use software to take screenshots of workers’ computers

#34

Post by crashedsnow » Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:11 PM UTC

dkersten wrote: post #23

benjohnson wrote: post #17

As a company owner, I've resisted the temptation to do this. We did make it easy for our employees to behave themselves by making it very easy to 'clock in' and 'clock out.' I told everybody that this is a time to be close to family - if your child wants to play ball in the middle of the day, then go ahead! Just clock out before you do. Get your 8 hours in and document your work. Thankfully everybody has responded we…

Why is it tied to time, instead of deliverables? I mean, if I work extra hard to get the days work done in 4 hours, why can’t I leave early compared to a co-worker who is working less focused and more slowly? I get that it’s not easy to set good milestones, and to keep it fair in terms of making sure everyone has approximately equal work, but I feel the same problems exist with required work “time” especially since i…

+1. Outside hourly contractors, if you have a clear sense of what impact/outcome you're seeking, time of day or number of hours shouldn't matter. Often I suspect it's a proxy for NOT having a clear idea of the desired outcomes. Removing a requirement for "8 hours a day" can even be a good forcing function to ensure you DO have a clear and well-communicated set of goals and outcomes. Indexing on time (IMHO) can also have unwanted side effects like people just filling in the time "because they have to", which is pointless for everyone involved.

Re: Employers who use software to take screenshots of workers’ computers

#35

Post by mschuster91 » Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:12 PM UTC

This would be super illegal in Germany and I believe also in the rest of Europe.

Sure, most corporate IT depts could do this - but if caught, they'd face real penalties. The brazen-ness of US employers regarding surveillance of their employees is something that continues to (negatively) amaze me, even after years on HN and Reddit.

Re: Employers who use software to take screenshots of workers’ computers

#36

Post by amiga_500 » Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:12 PM UTC

I remote into my PC at work with citrix.

When I want to surf the web I use my local browser. I would be surprised if citrix can screenshot other active windows, perhaps I'm naive.

Re: Employers who use software to take screenshots of workers’ computers

#37

Post by rapind » Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:13 PM UTC

codesuela wrote: post #16

dessant wrote: post #12

This [1] is a good read on what you can expect as remote work becomes widespread in a competitive job market. [1] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/carolineodonovan/upwork...

This seems pretty easy to game for a software engineer: 1. Write code for the project and record mouse clicks and keystrokes 2. Replay keystrokes at .5 speed inside a mirrored VM a more sophisticated tool could also vary speed and add typos.

Agreed, and bring it on. If this becomes a thing then I'll run a platform you can outsource your busy time in a VM to. This sounds like a ton of fun TBH and makes me think of game automation. Evolving into a game of cat and mouse and giving me an excuse to spend more time messing w/ OpenAI.

Re: Employers who use software to take screenshots of workers’ computers

#38

Post by closeparen » Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:13 PM UTC

dkersten wrote: post #23

benjohnson wrote: post #17

As a company owner, I've resisted the temptation to do this. We did make it easy for our employees to behave themselves by making it very easy to 'clock in' and 'clock out.' I told everybody that this is a time to be close to family - if your child wants to play ball in the middle of the day, then go ahead! Just clock out before you do. Get your 8 hours in and document your work. Thankfully everybody has responded we…

Why is it tied to time, instead of deliverables? I mean, if I work extra hard to get the days work done in 4 hours, why can’t I leave early compared to a co-worker who is working less focused and more slowly? I get that it’s not easy to set good milestones, and to keep it fair in terms of making sure everyone has approximately equal work, but I feel the same problems exist with required work “time” especially since i…

You generally don't hire people who are twice as capable as the existing team by accident. Tech companies invest enormously in sourcing, selecting, and closing people like that. They want to see a return. If you're just going to calibrate your performance to the median, they could have spent less time and money hiring someone cheaper and less talented

I guess I'd understand if the company were not trying to "innovate" or "raise the bar" or anything, just fulfill some mundane requirements at the lowest cost, and paid accordingly.

Re: Employers who use software to take screenshots of workers’ computers

#39

Post by tanilama » Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:14 PM UTC

quicklime wrote: post #13

tanilama wrote: post #7

If it is the computer that owned by the employer, then it is their property, they put all kinds of spyware there, nothing news worthy

I've never really understood why people think this line of reasoning is valid. Prior to the panedemic, I used the bathrooms at the office nearly every day. The toilets are undoubtedly their property, but is it ok for them to put whatever kind of spyware they want in there too?

It is taking screenshots of your desktop, not turn on the camera and take your photo.

Re: Employers who use software to take screenshots of workers’ computers

#40

Post by amiga_500 » Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:14 PM UTC

codesuela wrote: post #16

dessant wrote: post #12

This [1] is a good read on what you can expect as remote work becomes widespread in a competitive job market. [1] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/carolineodonovan/upwork...

This seems pretty easy to game for a software engineer: 1. Write code for the project and record mouse clicks and keystrokes 2. Replay keystrokes at .5 speed inside a mirrored VM a more sophisticated tool could also vary speed and add typos.

Employer: your keystroke rate is low

Me: I'm thinking about if I should use a string here in c++

Employer: fair enough