While I was building the my covid 19 tracker https://visalist.io/emergency/coronavirus , I stumbled upon this and was taken aback. These are some hard hitting evidence. What does it mean, what repercussions this can have on the World? So china has finally won the world war 3?
The article states that while the virus could have escaped from a lab, there is no evidence this was intentional.
Evidence SARS-CoV-2 Emerged from a Biological Laboratory in Wuhan, China
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Re: Evidence SARS-CoV-2 Emerged from a Biological Laboratory in Wuhan, China
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What direct evidence do we have for the 'wet market' theory that is currently most widely accepted?
A couple of million years of Zoonotic events should count as pretty good evidence that that is how these things happen.
Re: Evidence SARS-CoV-2 Emerged from a Biological Laboratory in Wuhan, China
#33They present this as a conspiracy, but whether it escaped from the lab is a bit of a whatever in comparison to the coverup and the damage of suppressing the initial epidemic and playing it down after they were found out. No one is really saying it was intentional; and while risky, the research into coronavirii that could trigger a future pandemic was valuable. But it was a screw-up; someone made a mistake or took a s…
> whether it escaped from the lab is a bit of a whatever It's actually a big difference: It's the scenario of accepting a statiscal misfortune from mother nature versus the scenario of a lack of duty-of-care from a public institution, closely followed by having to pay reparations to a very long list of countries.
My point is that they failed in their disclosure whether it came from the lab or not, and more likely where foreign governments would pursue them for any repatriations.
It's the same situation if there was a nuclear accident - once it has occurred the expectation is to be upfront with the facts so other nations can prepare and deal with any damage. The circumstances of why are only important as far as preventing it happening again.
Re: Evidence SARS-CoV-2 Emerged from a Biological Laboratory in Wuhan, China
#34If there is some other website or paper that goes through this in more detail, it would be good if someone could post a link to that website.
It could be that next week someone discovers the intermediate host (like the civet cat was for SARS), and the whole discussion becomes moot. But for the moment I think we are still in "don't know either way" territory.
Also we may eventually come to a deeper understanding of the nature of zoonotic events, and whether it is at all possible that a scientific laboratory could accidentally become part of the chain of transfer.
For example, it might be that a coronavirus only rarely and temporarily exists in a state where it infects the source host and is capable of infecting the destination host. In which case such a transfer will only ever occur in a situation where large numbers of indidivuals from both source and destination species exist, ie in rural areas where wildlife mixes with people, or in farms, or some combination of those two.
Another thing I would note is that all the examples of laboratory accidents were of organisms already known to be dangerous human diseases. Those types of accidents can and do happen. Whether it is at all probable that such an accident could generate a _new_ dangerous human disease is not so obvious. This comes back to the question of what probabilities are involved in the events leading up to a typical zoonotic event.
Re: Evidence SARS-CoV-2 Emerged from a Biological Laboratory in Wuhan, China
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're a tool in someone else's toolbox. As long as you realize that.
The whole information wars thing becomes 4d chess very quickly. We could equally argue that dismissing this collection of facts (not just a theory), makes us a tool in someone else's toolbox as well. > all the intelligence services in the West who would have been on this like flies If I was trying to investigate this 'lab accident' theory, the last thing I want would be for the public to believe this. In a hypothetic…
Source on this? All the mainstream press I’ve read on this in the past two days suggests that the US investigation is centered on the theory of accidental lab release.
Re: Evidence SARS-CoV-2 Emerged from a Biological Laboratory in Wuhan, China
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
The whole information wars thing becomes 4d chess very quickly. We could equally argue that dismissing this collection of facts (not just a theory), makes us a tool in someone else's toolbox as well. > all the intelligence services in the West who would have been on this like flies If I was trying to investigate this 'lab accident' theory, the last thing I want would be for the public to believe this. In a hypothetic…
> to me it's very telling that the US investigation looked at the 'wet-market' theory and the 'bio-engineer weapon' theory and completely ignored over the 'lab-accident' theory despite all the diplomatic cables discussion in the media, about concerns over lab safety and staff training Source on this? All the mainstream press I’ve read on this in the past two days suggests that the US investigation is centered on the…
Basing on the article which suggest the focus was on a 'created' 'bio-weapon' virus. Rather than just the simpler scenario of a gain-of-function experiment gone bad.
Re: Evidence SARS-CoV-2 Emerged from a Biological Laboratory in Wuhan, China
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article states that while the virus could have escaped from a lab, there is no evidence this was intentional.
Closing china internally while allowing outgoing international flights, and somehow convincing WHO to pressure outside world away from closing borders was intentional.
That didn't happen. When China shut down Wuhan, they shut down all transit, including international flights. The airport was completely closed. Even foreign nationals needed special permission and special chartered flights organized by their governments to leave.
> WHO to pressure outside world away from closing borders was intentional.
The WHO has always been against closing borders during an epidemic. This wasn't a new recommendation. Just look up the WHO recommendations for every Public Health Emergency of International Concern. They discouraged travel bans in every single case.
Re: Evidence SARS-CoV-2 Emerged from a Biological Laboratory in Wuhan, China
#38Hacker News has officially lost the plot. Instead of flagging this and moving on we are now debating not whether or not to ban project-evidence on sight but whether or not the release was intentional or not. Can we all come to our senses please? What are the chances that you'd find out about this from some github.io pages instead of from all the intelligence services in the West who would have been on this like flies…
Are we really at the point where we know for certain how this pandemic came about? Is there really only one true view? There's basically 3 theories that have been put out: 1: The US military developed it. This theory from some CCP higher ups was quickly discredited. 2: It originated in a wet market in Wuhan This theory does not account for a few things, such as (a) how did the bats end up there? (b) Is there any proo…
4. The virus transferred from an infected animal (not necessarily a bat) to a human, either at the Wuhan South China Seafood market or somewhere else, possibly in the countryside. The market might have just been the site of the first superspreading event. In a big country like China, millions of people come into contact with infected animals all the time. There's no need to invent a Hollywood-style theory about the virus escaping from a lab to explain how it got into humans.
Re: Evidence SARS-CoV-2 Emerged from a Biological Laboratory in Wuhan, China
#39Hacker News has officially lost the plot. Instead of flagging this and moving on we are now debating not whether or not to ban project-evidence on sight but whether or not the release was intentional or not. Can we all come to our senses please? What are the chances that you'd find out about this from some github.io pages instead of from all the intelligence services in the West who would have been on this like flies…
Are we really at the point where we know for certain how this pandemic came about? Is there really only one true view? There's basically 3 theories that have been put out: 1: The US military developed it. This theory from some CCP higher ups was quickly discredited. 2: It originated in a wet market in Wuhan This theory does not account for a few things, such as (a) how did the bats end up there? (b) Is there any proo…
These are serious accusations, and you owe it to the rest of us to provide some serious proof.