It was too painful. Spent 6 years or so. I;ve given up. Honestly corporate salaries will earn you 3-4 million by the time you are 37 or so. Why bother with rinky dink startups anyways?
Emotional debt in startups
31–40 of 64 posts
Re: Emotional debt in startups
#32I agree with this article, from a slightly different perspective. I’m a solo founder, company started 2015, went through accelerator, VC funding, etc. There’s a certain level of emotional stress I can handle, and with everything that goes into making a startup succeed, I was right at my limit for multiple years. Looking back (with my startup profitable, stable, running well), the thing I hate thinking about most is s…
Hey Cj! 28 is still very young - you'll be fine! I am also a founder, and do wonder sometimes if I'm not working hard enough - ie: stripping away everything in my life. I'm a bit older than you, and worked myself to the bone in my 20s without much equity to show for it - and now I pace myself a bit. That said, I often notice times where my 20 year old self would have simply not slept, and instead I sleep for 6 hours…
I often notice times where my 20 year old self would have simply not slept, and instead I sleep for 6 hours and call it a necessary compromise.
I remember doing that when I was twenty. I also remember how useless I always was come 10AM, and how I could fall asleep standing by noon.
By and large I don't think I'm any less able to pull an all nighter, get really drunk, eat trash, or do the other things. I think I'm just a lot more aware of the consequences.
Re: Emotional debt in startups
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not saying the person is not part of an elite. I'm saying his problem is quite common, and has little to do with him being part of an elite. Yes, he could realize that he is in a good position, and it's not a big deal if his startup fails, and he can always get a decent paying job. But he may well have the same problems in that job (not always as severe, but sometimes it can be). He may well have the same problem…
It's convenient to believe that he causes his own problems by chasing wealth That's not at all what I said by any stretch of the imagination. I said "These are good problems to have. Having some perspective on that fact can help you face them more calmly." not trying to get filthy rich will not cure your problem. There are actually loads of people who report otherwise. There are myriad books by people who chose to wa…
I agree that not chasing wealth will prevent some problems that people who do chase wealth have. I merely disagree that it will prevent this problem. There are plenty of people who are not chasing wealth and are not crazy busy but have similar problems as he does.
Re: Emotional debt in startups
#34People give all kinds of wrong advice when you start out:
Take risks when you're young.
Fail fast, break things.
Here's the reality I've experienced as a startup founder. Its not the holy truth, but its been my life and my experiences.
If you shoot an arrow even a few degrees off-center, it hits somewhere far from the board.
Similarly the decisions you take early on are so much more critical to your life.
As an Indian student these are all of the decisions you take:
Age 15: Science, Commerce, Arts
Age 17: Medical, Engineering
Age 18: Computer Science, Electrical, Mechanical, Civil engineering etc
Age 22: US Masters or Local Job
Guess what?
If you want to realistically be a millionaire by 37-38 you have to take 5 correct decisions in a row (Science, Engineering, CS, Masters).
You have to do 5 very difficult things to be a Google level engineer.
Even if you do four out of five correct after 20 years your life will be in a far lower orbit with respect to finances. Its sad but true.
This is why you should do your startup after you clear this early minefield of difficult decisions. Once you can comfortably have a good job at your whim. I'd advise people to startup only after 30.
And remember, one misstep and the outcome can be wildly different after 20 years!
Re: Emotional debt in startups
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's convenient to believe that he causes his own problems by chasing wealth That's not at all what I said by any stretch of the imagination. I said "These are good problems to have. Having some perspective on that fact can help you face them more calmly." not trying to get filthy rich will not cure your problem. There are actually loads of people who report otherwise. There are myriad books by people who chose to wa…
I agree that not chasing wealth will prevent some problems that people who do chase wealth have. I merely disagree that it will prevent this problem. There are plenty of people who are not chasing wealth and are not crazy busy but have similar problems as he does.
I will note that the author of this piece apparently now makes his money helping wealthy people recover from the so-called emotional debt they incurred while getting rich. So he has zero reason to tell people how to avoid incurring it to begin with and every reason to claim that it's entirely unavoidable.
I, on the other hand, give most of my wisdom away for free, which is one of the reasons I remain poor.
I'm poor in part because I find it morally objectionable to tell people to keep shooting themselves in the foot and to come hire me when the pain and bleeding get bad enough and I will bandage them back up and kiss their boo-boos for a steep fee. I have a bad habit of saying things like "the emperor has no clothes" and "not shooting yourself in the foot is an option here."
On the upside, I've avoided an estimated $9 million dollars in medical expenses. So it's not all downside.
In the interest of not looking like I just must get in the last word (or similar), I will likely step away from this conversation at this point in time.
Have a great (whatever time of day in your part of the world).
Re: Emotional debt in startups
#36It was too painful. Spent 6 years or so. I;ve given up. Honestly corporate salaries will earn you 3-4 million by the time you are 37 or so. Why bother with rinky dink startups anyways?
Verrrrrry few people earn 3-4 million in the corporate world by 37. Depending on whether you get an undergrad or a masters, that’s ~12-15 years of work. That means you’d have to AVERAGE 200K-333K per year, over your first 12-15 years, to hot that. That’s really, really rare - considering you’d be starting at a much lower salary, you’d have to be at ~$500K by your mid 30s.
Founding startup(s) is really, really hard, but people do it because it’s a chance to get fuck-you money by your 30s/40s. The corporate world rarely offers that, most have to work until 60-65 before they can afford a decent retirement.
Re: Emotional debt in startups
#37It was too painful. Spent 6 years or so. I;ve given up. Honestly corporate salaries will earn you 3-4 million by the time you are 37 or so. Why bother with rinky dink startups anyways?
Verrrrrry few people earn 3-4 million in the corporate world by 37. Depending on whether you get an undergrad or a masters, that’s ~12-15 years of work. That means you’d have to AVERAGE 200K-333K per year, over your first 12-15 years, to hot that. That’s really, really rare - considering you’d be starting at a much lower salary, you’d have to be at ~$500K by your mid 30s. Founding startup(s) is really, really hard, b…
Read this analysis: https://www.myroadtofire.com/blog/how-engineers-can-fire-in-...
You have to be an L5 engineer at Google. And I know a guy earning $700k per year at 32-33 in ARM. Plus other VPs. Depends on your vantage point, but starting a startup is way harder. Personal experience here.
Re: Emotional debt in startups
#38It was too painful. Spent 6 years or so. I;ve given up. Honestly corporate salaries will earn you 3-4 million by the time you are 37 or so. Why bother with rinky dink startups anyways?
Verrrrrry few people earn 3-4 million in the corporate world by 37. Depending on whether you get an undergrad or a masters, that’s ~12-15 years of work. That means you’d have to AVERAGE 200K-333K per year, over your first 12-15 years, to hot that. That’s really, really rare - considering you’d be starting at a much lower salary, you’d have to be at ~$500K by your mid 30s. Founding startup(s) is really, really hard, b…
I'll tell you another reason why people underestimate difficulty of startups.
The probabilities are completely uncertain. You just never know how big it can get or how likely it is.
If you are optimistic like I was, you "hope for the best" since that one guy did it right? In essence, you don't know how hard the problem is.
In the corporate world you do know the probabilities, so you get scared by it.
TL;DR: Once you know the true probabilities you'll know which is a better option
Re: Emotional debt in startups
#39There's a cost of ownership here and it's bigger than most people think. You see the success stories, the dramatizations ... Very few entrepreneurs are able to let go. At 5 p.m. At 3 a.m. On the weekends. On your wedding day. It can consume you, particularly if you've tied its success directly to your ego. Hard for me to not think about the late nights with the laptop. Even after getting married. Even after having a…
There's an enormous opportunity cost. You could be doing somewhere. Yes, that 9 to 5 job at a megacorp sucks. But you are building your 401k. You can turn off after work. If the company has cashflow issues, the worst that could happen is that you might be let go. You are not really on the hook. You are trading that for the chance to strike gold. Which you might do, but more often than not, you won't. And then you mig…
I think this discount the enormous satisfaction that comes with creating your own thing.
9 - 5 working for somebody else can feel a lot longer than 6 - 9 working on your own biz. Especially when you're talking in decades.
And striking gold doesn't always have to be the desired outcome. Simply achieving freedom and autonomy is success.
Re: Emotional debt in startups
#40There's a cost of ownership here and it's bigger than most people think. You see the success stories, the dramatizations ... Very few entrepreneurs are able to let go. At 5 p.m. At 3 a.m. On the weekends. On your wedding day. It can consume you, particularly if you've tied its success directly to your ego. Hard for me to not think about the late nights with the laptop. Even after getting married. Even after having a…
There's an enormous opportunity cost. You could be doing somewhere. Yes, that 9 to 5 job at a megacorp sucks. But you are building your 401k. You can turn off after work. If the company has cashflow issues, the worst that could happen is that you might be let go. You are not really on the hook. You are trading that for the chance to strike gold. Which you might do, but more often than not, you won't. And then you mig…
As another commenter said, this is just financial opportunity cost. You can consider it in reverse: imagine the inspirational/motivational opportunity cost incurred by working at a megacorp, when your soul could feel far less deadened by working on a project you have total control of.
Of course, if someone is working on a startup just to get rich, this won't be the case, but I think this isn't that common, or at least isn't in the majority of cases. You only get one chance to exist, and it's infinitesimally short and fleeting; why not spend it doing something that maximizes your enjoyment of it, rather than your financial reward, if it's at all possible to do so?