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I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

sixthtone.com

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Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#31

Post by yorwba »

baybal2 wrote: post #20
tly_alex wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see what's wrong with this particular article that's not true. From what I am reading, most of the piece was based on the the doctor's experience.

> I would love to see what's wrong with this particular article that's not true. May well be nothing. The gotcha here is not what is being said, but why it is there in the first place.

Also what is not being said. I do think Sixth Tone's writers are trying to do write informative articles instead of bland propaganda, but some topics are conspicuously absent.

E.g. if you search for articles about Uyghurs: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=uyghur+site%3Asixthtone.com There's not much wrong with those articles, except for what's missing.

Compare with the South China Morning Post, which is also sometimes accused of being propaganda, but it does cover critical topics: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=uyghur+site%3Ascmp.com

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#33

Post by nl »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #9
strider12 wrote: post #3

basically no one died or got infected... lovely story. and as the great w would say, mission accomplished.

>and as the great w would say, mission accomplished Sorry, but the use of this quote out of context is one of my pet peeves, and the similarity is striking. In the case of G.W, he was receiving sailors returning to port after completing their deployment in harm's way. Their mission was accomplished. The message was not that war is over, as the media insinuated. In fact, the counterpoint was made in the speech[1], alt…

This is re-writing history.

Edit: John McCain thought "Mission Accomplished" meant "End of War" too: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/TheNote/story?id=4769254&pag...

If a speech says "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended" and "The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 -- and still goes on" and "We're helping to rebuild Iraq, where the dictator built palaces for himself, instead of hospitals and schools. And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by, and for the Iraqi people" the message is pretty clear: the Iraq war was over.

Yes, the crew allegedly asked for the sign to be made, but Bush's speech was about the "end of major combat operations in Iraq". Speeches to thank aircraft carrier crews for their missions aren't nationally televised, but that speech was.

There was no doubt in national media at that time what the mission was that had been accomplished.

Here's administration member Richard Perle writing in USA Today about that:

It ended quickly with few civilian casualties and with little damage to Iraq’s cities, towns, or infrastructure….It ended without the quagmire [war critics] predicted….Iraqis are freer today and we are safer. Relax and enjoy it.[1]

If anyone thinks a carefully choreographed performance[2] like this didn't also consider the banner.

Here's the archived speech[3] where is says: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. (Applause.) And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country.

Your quote is later, where he makes clear there are other battles elsewhere ("Al Qaeda... still operate in many nations".)

[1] https://archives.cjr.org/short_takes/mission_revisited.php

[2] https://www.mediamatters.org/laura-ingraham/mission-accompli...

[3] https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/20...

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#34

Post by Melting_Harps »

wakenmeng wrote: post #26
EdwardDiego wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised that they let him admit that he arrived to a ward covered in rubbish and medical waste staffed only by two opthamologists and two nurses tbh. At -2 (and counting) for this currently, any downvoters care to comment as to why? If indeed this publication is a propaganda mouthpiece, then my surprise that they're publishing something that reflects badly on their medical providers should be easy to understand

Actually there are a lot of posts(pics, videos) on China social media from doctors showing they were lack of PPE, and using even plastic bags. It is not they said that china gov controls all media and social posts. And most of the videos u saw on twitter which gov staffs' violence are posted on Chinese social media first to explore and report this to the gov. They are just similar to other countries' gov staffs' enfo…

> Actually there are a lot of posts(pics, videos) on China social media from doctors showing they were lack of PPE, and using even plastic bags.

Agreed. But, that still wouldn't stop the CCP from trying to deny that it happened or continues to take place, just as they're actively lying about the death count in just Wuhan as many locals reported that crematoriums were running 24/7 and urns were being delivered by the truckload daily for the families of the dead [1].

I don't think we'll ever truly know the death count from all of this on Mainland China, mainly because the CCP are trying to spin the optics away from their culpability in trying to cover it up and the censorship to do so while trying to change the narrative to suit their ends.

1: https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-residents-say-chinese-...

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#35

Post by peteretep »

tly_alex wrote: post #19
baybal2 wrote: post #7

FYI, this publication, and its parent is pretty much People's Daily in disguise. It is made along the lines of Shanghai Oriental Morning Post 2.0. Without a doubt, it is an even more of a state organ media than it's spiritual predecessor, despite the mandate to push "dissenting" view. Unlike something like Southern Weekly, which had not a single party cadre in its editors, despite being overtly party ran, but closed…

I would love to see what's wrong with this particular article that's not true. From what I am reading, most of the piece was based on the the doctor's experience.

Propaganda is not about what's true and not true, but about what's amplified and not amplified. I'm sure literally every word of this moving piece about a brave Chinese doctor overcoming adversity to help heal her countrymen is true.

I suspect an article in Western-style media might have been a little less quick to let the government off the hook though:

> The main problem wasn’t poor preparation, but the sudden influx of patients that would have overwhelmed a stockpile even 10 times the size available

That sentence is probably true, but it also doesn't mention the ham-fisted approach by authorities at the beginning which exacerbated the problem.

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#36

Post by redis_mlc »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #34
wakenmeng wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually there are a lot of posts(pics, videos) on China social media from doctors showing they were lack of PPE, and using even plastic bags. It is not they said that china gov controls all media and social posts. And most of the videos u saw on twitter which gov staffs' violence are posted on Chinese social media first to explore and report this to the gov. They are just similar to other countries' gov staffs' enfo…

> Actually there are a lot of posts(pics, videos) on China social media from doctors showing they were lack of PPE, and using even plastic bags. Agreed. But, that still wouldn't stop the CCP from trying to deny that it happened or continues to take place, just as they're actively lying about the death count in just Wuhan as many locals reported that crematoriums were running 24/7 and urns were being delivered by the…

It's well-known that corona viruses wipe out ICU staff, so there's really nothing to hide.

It was reported with SARS-1 (2002/2003) in Toronto and S. Korea, and probably China.

IIRC, with SARS-2, it was a major concern in Italian and US hospitals.

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#37

Post by baybal2 »

yorwba wrote: post #31
baybal2 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would love to see what's wrong with this particular article that's not true. May well be nothing. The gotcha here is not what is being said, but why it is there in the first place.

Also what is not being said. I do think Sixth Tone's writers are trying to do write informative articles instead of bland propaganda, but some topics are conspicuously absent. E.g. if you search for articles about Uyghurs: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=uyghur+site%3Asixthtone.com There's not much wrong with those articles, except for what's missing. Compare with the South China Morning Post, which is also sometimes accus…

FYI, Jun Mai lives and works out of Beijing, and seems to be doing that with ease. It is near impossible for HK journalists to get journalist visas for mainland China.

Second, he does political reporting, in fact, he specialises on it. A foreign person is simply not doing political reporting in a country like China. Absolutely inconceivable, beyond some fully choreographed potemkin village tours.

Third, what he puts in his writing, and very overt innuendos he makes from time to time feels very much like somebody doing a "write about this, and that" job. The logical, and thought flow simply doesn't feel like a news report.

From the very beginning of his articles, he already has an argument given almost like a statement of a fact, and then he steers the reader towards that with random supporting arguments. In other words, he knows, from the start, reliable facts about current events he writes about.

Fourth, where does his info comes from? A lot of things he wrote before could've only come from a first party source. How he gets access to state events to which even internal party press is not allowed?

It is 100% clear to me that he is a part of a leaking operation, and very clumsily ran at that.

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#38

Post by robocat »

redis_mlc wrote: post #36
Melting_Harps wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually there are a lot of posts(pics, videos) on China social media from doctors showing they were lack of PPE, and using even plastic bags. Agreed. But, that still wouldn't stop the CCP from trying to deny that it happened or continues to take place, just as they're actively lying about the death count in just Wuhan as many locals reported that crematoriums were running 24/7 and urns were being delivered by the…

It's well-known that corona viruses wipe out ICU staff, so there's really nothing to hide. It was reported with SARS-1 (2002/2003) in Toronto and S. Korea, and probably China. IIRC, with SARS-2, it was a major concern in Italian and US hospitals.

The most interesting parts of the article to me were:

1. They had enough PPE (quite possible - the first place hit should have plenty available)

2. No staff caught the virus (this seems unlikely - even with perfect protection at work, some should have caught it at home?)

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#39

Post by killjoywashere »

peteretep wrote: post #35
tly_alex wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see what's wrong with this particular article that's not true. From what I am reading, most of the piece was based on the the doctor's experience.

Propaganda is not about what's true and not true, but about what's amplified and not amplified. I'm sure literally every word of this moving piece about a brave Chinese doctor overcoming adversity to help heal her countrymen is true. I suspect an article in Western-style media might have been a little less quick to let the government off the hook though: > The main problem wasn’t poor preparation, but the sudden infl…

> but about what's amplified and not amplified

Makes Chinese ownership in reddit even more concerning, no?

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#40

Post by Gibbon1 »

robocat wrote: post #38
redis_mlc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's well-known that corona viruses wipe out ICU staff, so there's really nothing to hide. It was reported with SARS-1 (2002/2003) in Toronto and S. Korea, and probably China. IIRC, with SARS-2, it was a major concern in Italian and US hospitals.

The most interesting parts of the article to me were: 1. They had enough PPE (quite possible - the first place hit should have plenty available) 2. No staff caught the virus (this seems unlikely - even with perfect protection at work, some should have caught it at home?)

One of the things I read was the Chinese isolated doctors and nurses working with COVID19 patients.
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