Live data from Hacker News

Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong

economist.com

31–40 of 509 posts

Re: Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong

#31
post #15

It's very interesting to me that (nearly) everyone agrees that reselling disaster supplies like masks, hand sanitizer, etc. for a large profit is terrible, but somehow selling literal essentials like food, housing, and healthcare for profit is just fine.

There's a temporal aspect that your comparison misses. That is, after the disaster is done, re-selling supplies like masks, hand sanitizer, etc for a large profit will be just fine. Profits incentivize risk and innovation.

Re: Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong

#32

Increased production doesn’t occur because the economics don’t work, it doesn’t occur because there’s just no way to physically ramp up production that fast. That’s not really a critique of the economics. If production could be increased that fast the manufacturers would. An important point the article didn’t address is that high prices direct resources to more important uses. If prices are very high then hospitals m…

> If prices are very high then hospitals may be the only ones who can afford them, versus people on the street. Outlawing price gauging alone just ensures masks go to people who don’t need them as much as doctors. The problem is that doesn't seem to reflect the reality of the situation. Why are hospitals still experiencing shortages? What stops manufacturers and sellers from limiting supply to drive up prices? This i…

Not to mention, charging hospitals at the front-line of saving us all exorbitant rates (just to stop masks from going to randos on the street who don't need them) is grotesque. You're gouging our first responders just so people who don't need masks don't get them? Are you kidding me? There must be a more effective answer in a pandemic.

This has to be one of the most late-stage capitalist things I've heard all pandemic.

Re: Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong

#33

Increased production doesn’t occur because the economics don’t work, it doesn’t occur because there’s just no way to physically ramp up production that fast. That’s not really a critique of the economics. If production could be increased that fast the manufacturers would. An important point the article didn’t address is that high prices direct resources to more important uses. If prices are very high then hospitals m…

Would toilet paper only being affordable to the wealthy be "more important uses"?

That would seem to be the likely end result if it were greatly restricted.

We've already seen that with healthcare in the US. It is expensive, so is it used on more important people?

Re: Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong

#34
post #15

It's very interesting to me that (nearly) everyone agrees that reselling disaster supplies like masks, hand sanitizer, etc. for a large profit is terrible, but somehow selling literal essentials like food, housing, and healthcare for profit is just fine.

The difference, generally, is who the gains go to. Societally, we want there to be an incentive and reward to those who will produce the things we need so that they get produced. Giving gains to hoarders who artificially lower supplies and then resell when disasters spike demand does nothing beneficial for society. It's rent seeking at its worst. As an expansion on this, the thing you should _really_ be upset with is people who own land and get massive returns on it. Land's value rarely has anything to do with the owners of the land. Note that I'm speaking of the value of the raw land and not any structure built on top of it. With land ownership, especially in a place like the SFBA, huge economic gains have gone to people who have done nothing than own something and vote down housing.

The broad point of all of this is that society should be structured in a way that rewards act as incentives to people to create more benefit to others. That's the core idea behind an Adam Smith type capitalism.

Re: Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong

#35

Increased production doesn’t occur because the economics don’t work, it doesn’t occur because there’s just no way to physically ramp up production that fast. That’s not really a critique of the economics. If production could be increased that fast the manufacturers would. An important point the article didn’t address is that high prices direct resources to more important uses. If prices are very high then hospitals m…

> If prices are very high then hospitals may be the only ones who can afford them, versus people on the street. Outlawing price gauging alone just ensures masks go to people who don’t need them as much as doctors. The problem is that doesn't seem to reflect the reality of the situation. Why are hospitals still experiencing shortages? What stops manufacturers and sellers from limiting supply to drive up prices? This i…

AFAIK, hospitals aren't experiencing a shortage because of lack of money to buy masks. They're experiencing a shortage because there aren't enough masks.

Re: Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was able to get kleenex and paper towels saturday because the grocery store is now limiting people to one purchase per day. I am sure there are people who need more than that, and any system of rationing should allow for exceptions. But when people insist that a "free" market is inherently correct, it's no different from insisting that your OS scheduler is perfect even though some processes never get to run https:/…

The article and my comment are not about rationing. The article is about anti-"price gouging" laws.

Don't they go hand in hand? If you can't charge as much as you want, that is an obvious incentive to ration.

Re: Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If prices are very high then hospitals may be the only ones who can afford them, versus people on the street. Outlawing price gauging alone just ensures masks go to people who don’t need them as much as doctors. The problem is that doesn't seem to reflect the reality of the situation. Why are hospitals still experiencing shortages? What stops manufacturers and sellers from limiting supply to drive up prices? This i…

AFAIK, hospitals aren't experiencing a shortage because of lack of money to buy masks. They're experiencing a shortage because there aren't enough masks.

In part because all the major powers already directed the masks to the hospitals.

Re: Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> high prices direct resources to more important uses I don't think that that is always true. High prices will redirect scarce resources to those who have the means and desire to pay for them. That doesn't necessarily mean that those uses are more important, regardless of how one defines what it means for the resource usage to be important.

> High prices will redirect scarce resources to those who have the means and desire to pay for them. That's true. Don't you think it's also true that those who need a good more have a greater desire to pay for that good? I understand that not everyone has the same ability to pay, but we can't crucify the market on the cross of equity. History shows that when you try to allocate goods based on feelings (some random of…

It is both immoral and incorrect to measure need based on who has the most liquidity.

Re: Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> High prices will redirect scarce resources to those who have the means and desire to pay for them. That's true. Don't you think it's also true that those who need a good more have a greater desire to pay for that good? I understand that not everyone has the same ability to pay, but we can't crucify the market on the cross of equity. History shows that when you try to allocate goods based on feelings (some random of…

It is both immoral and incorrect to measure need based on who has the most liquidity.

Or as we call it 'the US healthcare system'
Post reply on HN