We need to talk about AirPods Pro • Hacker News Board

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#31

Post by sanguy » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 10:24 PM UTC

russellbeattie wrote: post #12

JCharante wrote: post #6

I'm personally a fan of the conspiracy theory that because multiple ANC products have had their abilities reduced in firmware updates over the past couple years, research teams have been independently finding out that user's hearing are being damaged by highly effective ANC and have had to turn them down without admitting fault. Although I'm not even sure if that's how sound waves work, and recently there was Bose's…

The other option is that Bose, Sony or some other high-end audio company has a patent on whatever noise cancellation system was in place originally. A decision was made to avoid a legal battle (or a deal fell through at the last minute) and the feature was nerfed until Apple can strong arm the patent holder into a better deal.

Without disclosing more this is the situation.

The patents violated expire in 2021 so it is likely they are holding out.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#32

Post by craftinator » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 10:28 PM UTC

snapetom wrote: post #2

I can't imagine Scenario #1 being the issue. It should have been the first thing they looked at when designing it. If it is, it's a new level of terrible QA that Apple has been plagued with in recent years. My lack of faith in humanity can see #4. Another great thing nerfed by dumb people. Regardless, the firmware releases are an embarassing fiasco that demonstrates a lack of coordination and communication within App…

I can. Make a big splash with amazing ANC at launch, hope news media picks up stories about how awesome it is, then nerf it before that same media starts picking up stories about the crappy battery life.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#33

Post by novok » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 10:46 PM UTC

andreareina wrote: post #29

Lammy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like twice the sound to me due to the additional canceling wave. I don’t trust it to not damage the little delicate bits in my ear just because my brain is able to sum the two waves and perceive silence.

ANC works on the level of physics, not just perception -- it attenuates the actual sound waves.

Where does that energy go although? The waves go to 0-ish, but that air pressure / energy has to go somewhere correct?

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#34

Post by novok » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 10:48 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #9

Mine are on 2B588 and I think I bought them late enough that I never even had the original firmware to compare. I do know that when I first put them in I thought the power went out in my house (due the sudden lack of noise). I would like to know if I'm crazy or if these don't stay in ears well at all. Kind of the opposite of what you would expect from an earpod like this but I can get them to fall out in And before I…

I think it's a break in issue. When you first get them the tips are stiffer and not covered in ear wax. As usage increases the rubber becomes more pliable (because it's so thin) and becomes covered with a layer of ear wax over time, causing lower friction and thus a higher probability of fall out.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#35

Post by tonywastaken » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 10:52 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #9

Mine are on 2B588 and I think I bought them late enough that I never even had the original firmware to compare. I do know that when I first put them in I thought the power went out in my house (due the sudden lack of noise). I would like to know if I'm crazy or if these don't stay in ears well at all. Kind of the opposite of what you would expect from an earpod like this but I can get them to fall out in And before I…

I've had the same issue. I've thought that maybe my ears are just too greasy. I'm constantly fidgeting with them. With the original AirPods I would forget I had them on.

They also seem to take longer to disconnect/switch to different devices.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#36

Post by novok » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 10:52 PM UTC

JCharante wrote: post #6

I'm personally a fan of the conspiracy theory that because multiple ANC products have had their abilities reduced in firmware updates over the past couple years, research teams have been independently finding out that user's hearing are being damaged by highly effective ANC and have had to turn them down without admitting fault. Although I'm not even sure if that's how sound waves work, and recently there was Bose's…

That's my theory! I bought the airpods pro before nov, and around nov 2019 I developed tinnitus that I couldn't pinpoint the cause of, even after going to an ENT & Audiologists. After going to the Audiologist. I also found out tinitus is a big mystery in the medical field outside of a small band of causes that I didn't have.

The only difference in my day to day was the Airpods Pro and biking to work with them.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#37

Post by novok » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 10:53 PM UTC

someonehere wrote: post #27

Maybe litigation about the earbuds being too quiet might happen if someone doesn’t hear something behind them like a car horn or oncoming something. I used to wear noise cancelling headphones while walking to work in downtown SF. It was too much cancellation that bothered me because I couldn’t hear anything approaching me from behind. I can easily see the opposite happen if someone was killed with the OG firmware. “A…

Wouldn't that also apply to earplugs?

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#38

Post by joshstrange » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 11:12 PM UTC

tonywastaken wrote: post #35

joshstrange wrote: post #9

Mine are on 2B588 and I think I bought them late enough that I never even had the original firmware to compare. I do know that when I first put them in I thought the power went out in my house (due the sudden lack of noise). I would like to know if I'm crazy or if these don't stay in ears well at all. Kind of the opposite of what you would expect from an earpod like this but I can get them to fall out in And before I…

I've had the same issue. I've thought that maybe my ears are just too greasy. I'm constantly fidgeting with them. With the original AirPods I would forget I had them on. They also seem to take longer to disconnect/switch to different devices.

I’ve has the same thought on my ears... yeah OG AirPods I would constantly forget I had them on or think I had them on, these and just a source of annoyance. I just got off a call, I was laying in bed and I had to readjust them 10+ times in the span of as many minutes... really annoying.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#39

Post by lttlrck » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 11:12 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #9

Mine are on 2B588 and I think I bought them late enough that I never even had the original firmware to compare. I do know that when I first put them in I thought the power went out in my house (due the sudden lack of noise). I would like to know if I'm crazy or if these don't stay in ears well at all. Kind of the opposite of what you would expect from an earpod like this but I can get them to fall out in And before I…

I resolved this by adding a blob of PVC glue (using a hot glue gun) to a specific spot so the shell of my ear holds them in place. The trick is making it so it’s still possible to close the case.

It’s not perfect. But it was a big improvement in my case. And it’s non-permanent.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0Gc9TrO4UWwv-kOns_o1sGmig

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#40

Post by trashfindhunter » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 11:32 PM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #23

Lammy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t ANC effectively twice the sound waves? People treat ANC like hearing protection in office situations and often turn up the volume to drown out nearby conversations. I don’t think it’s “ANC damages hearing” as much as “ANC encourages people to damage their hearing”.

> Isn’t ANC effectively twice the sound waves? ideally no, just the opposite. the idea of ANC is that you detect the frequency and amplitude of incoming waves, then generate a second wave with the same amplitude, but 180 degrees out of phase (so that the trough of the second wave aligns with the peak of the first). a perfect implementation would totally "cancel" the original sound with destructive interference. I'm n…

I've played with audio software for a long time and I recently experimented with Active Noise Cancellation. There are a few things to keep in mind:

* A "live" ANC process has no control over the environment from which it receives the audio signals that it acts adversarially against.

* When transmitting audio waves from one medium to another, there will be latency. Perhaps not much, but it will be there.

If you accept these two positions, then consider this:

* What happens when a sound wave that is being combatted (via phase inversion) suddenly stops, or inverts it's own phase? That's right, ANC could potentially double the amplitude of the frequency being combatted.

* I imagine that ANC technology takes advantage of latency to ensure that they don't damage people's hearing, but the nature of ANC requires low latency in general, otherwise you can't be sure that you are combatting the correct frequency (at which point you risk doubling the amplitude due to abrupt changes) - if someone more familiar with the actual algorithms could chime and correct me I will happily stand corrected :)