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Promising Covid-19 treatment using convalescent serum therapy fast-tracked

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Re: Promising Covid-19 treatment using convalescent serum therapy fast-tracked

#31

Post by jacquesm »

rumanator wrote: post #10
jacquesm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it was already mentioned today in the update to parliament here. Apparently - as with other respiratory viral infections - if you don't get it really bad then you may not be immune. That's a pretty fine line there. This would explain some of the more puzzling positive / negative / positive test sequences.

> Apparently - as with other respiratory viral infections - if you don't get it really bad then you may not be immune. Source?

Start here and keep on reading, it is fascinating stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_immune_system

Re: Promising Covid-19 treatment using convalescent serum therapy fast-tracked

#32

Post by abhisuri97 »

subsubzero wrote: post #28

A few questions on serum therapy: 1. Do you need the same blood type as the donor? 2. Can other infectious diseases spread via an infusion from an infected donor, ie. hiv, hepatitis?

bio undergrad so take w/grain of salt 1. No, because serum does not contain any cells that have the markers of a bloodtype. You're just transferring the antibodies pretty much. When you spin down a blood sample in a centrifuge, the bottom pellet contains blood cells, the supernatant is plasma. From that supernatant, when you get rid of clotting factors, the remainder is just soluble molecules and antibodies. 2. Maybe. Serum can also contain viruses, but I assume the serum will be treated with chemicals to "clean it up" and just isolate antibodies.

Re: Promising Covid-19 treatment using convalescent serum therapy fast-tracked

#33

Post by nsxwolf »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #27
BurningFrog wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half-informed layman questions: If this 30% recovered don't have antibodies, how did they beat the infection? Does the immune system have some other mechanism to defat a virus? Or does the antibody production taper off very fast for some people? Or can the virus just die out by itself somehow?

There is the innate immune system, and the adaptive immune system. If I understand correctly pathogen specific antibodies are created by the adaptive immune system, so maybe if the innate deals with the virus quickly the adaptive is not triggered. There was a good TWIV podcast talking about this.

If your innate immune system beats it, does that mean you're effectively already "immune" and are unlikely to develop serious COVID-19 disease when you catch the virus again, or was it just luck?

Re: Promising Covid-19 treatment using convalescent serum therapy fast-tracked

#34

Post by jeffdavis »

megous wrote: post #23
BurningFrog wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half-informed layman questions: If this 30% recovered don't have antibodies, how did they beat the infection? Does the immune system have some other mechanism to defat a virus? Or does the antibody production taper off very fast for some people? Or can the virus just die out by itself somehow?

Maybe non-specific immune response was able to kill off the virus early?

That seems weird. The virus makes it through all of your defenses, which seems like the hard part, and then gets beaten once inside?

It's like the Trojan horse coming in, and the soldiers, once inside, getting arrested for tax evasion before they can open the gates.

Re: Promising Covid-19 treatment using convalescent serum therapy fast-tracked

#35

Post by jjtheblunt »

BurningFrog wrote: post #20
jacquesm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it was already mentioned today in the update to parliament here. Apparently - as with other respiratory viral infections - if you don't get it really bad then you may not be immune. That's a pretty fine line there. This would explain some of the more puzzling positive / negative / positive test sequences.

Half-informed layman questions: If this 30% recovered don't have antibodies, how did they beat the infection? Does the immune system have some other mechanism to defat a virus? Or does the antibody production taper off very fast for some people? Or can the virus just die out by itself somehow?

I believe being homozygous for the delta32 mutation at the CCR5 gene locus is a possible example about which you ask.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCR5

Re: Promising Covid-19 treatment using convalescent serum therapy fast-tracked

#36

Post by choeger »

jacquesm wrote: post #6
callumprentice wrote: post #5

I read this last night: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3078840/coro... It's not peer reviewed so might not be valid or entirely accurate but worrying nevertheless.

Yes, it was already mentioned today in the update to parliament here. Apparently - as with other respiratory viral infections - if you don't get it really bad then you may not be immune. That's a pretty fine line there. This would explain some of the more puzzling positive / negative / positive test sequences.

These people came out of hospital. I think they have been hit comparatively hard. I guess (!) we see some result of false-positive test results here, together with coinfection with influenca or even the common flu.

Re: Promising Covid-19 treatment using convalescent serum therapy fast-tracked

#37

Post by LeoNatan25 »

nsxwolf wrote: post #33
somewhereoutth wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the innate immune system, and the adaptive immune system. If I understand correctly pathogen specific antibodies are created by the adaptive immune system, so maybe if the innate deals with the virus quickly the adaptive is not triggered. There was a good TWIV podcast talking about this.

If your innate immune system beats it, does that mean you're effectively already "immune" and are unlikely to develop serious COVID-19 disease when you catch the virus again, or was it just luck?

Probably luck. Given a much more potent viral load, it is more than likely the same patient can be infected again.

Re: Promising Covid-19 treatment using convalescent serum therapy fast-tracked

#38

Post by nsxwolf »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #37
nsxwolf wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your innate immune system beats it, does that mean you're effectively already "immune" and are unlikely to develop serious COVID-19 disease when you catch the virus again, or was it just luck?

Probably luck. Given a much more potent viral load, it is more than likely the same patient can be infected again.

There just doesn't seem to be any good news anywhere.

Re: Promising Covid-19 treatment using convalescent serum therapy fast-tracked

#39

Post by eli_gottlieb »

jacquesm wrote: post #25
BurningFrog wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half-informed layman questions: If this 30% recovered don't have antibodies, how did they beat the infection? Does the immune system have some other mechanism to defat a virus? Or does the antibody production taper off very fast for some people? Or can the virus just die out by itself somehow?

You beat the infection due to a skirmish between your 'standard' immune system and the virus infected cells. As soon as you get a full-on immune system response there is a change and some more long term effects come into play. Nature tends to be very efficient, engaging an expensive mechanism apparently leads to caching the knowledge so it can be recalled when required, but if the expense outweighs the cost of doing…

That was such a good description of learning/updating in the immune system that I just had to go follow you on Twitter!

Re: Promising Covid-19 treatment using convalescent serum therapy fast-tracked

#40

Post by qwerty123457 »

callumprentice wrote: post #5

I read this last night: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3078840/coro... It's not peer reviewed so might not be valid or entirely accurate but worrying nevertheless.

So, young people have way less antibodies. Lots of stats also show people aged 0-19 have barely any test-confirmed infetions compared to older populations. I also read that for the first 7 days, the virus mostly stays in your throat with mild symptoms and only after that it goes to the lungs causing major issues.

Could it be that young people with strong immune systems easily fight the virus away within the first week?

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