Someone is stealing your life (1990) • Hacker News Board

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#31

Post by rick888 » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 5:15 PM UTC

A business can take years to become successful, which many times means either not having a regular salary, sacrificing free-time with friends and family, and working harder than you ever would at any job. Even if it meant employees got a cut of the profits, unions and laws would prevent companies from being run like this.

It sounds like this guy expects a cut of the profits for just working, which will never happen (unless you are the government).

He doesn't like working for anyone, yet he does nothing to actually change his situation except blame anyone and everyone for his problems. He reminds me of the person that says that wealth and becoming rich is 'just luck'.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#32

Post by tomrod » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 5:18 PM UTC

As with other comments, I agree the tone is self-defeating.

When did we forget the difference between problems and conditions? Problems are things with solutions within our power. Conditions are things without solutions within our power.

I feel the author could benefit greatly by learning how to determine what could be solved with one's own effort--and an employer stealing life away is solvable, IMHO, in numerous ways.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#33

Post by takameyer » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 5:20 PM UTC

I work the office cubicle software job, but this doesn't bring me down too much. At times the mindset the author describes can creep up, but I can deal with it by realizing that everyday I'm getting better and better at what I do. Being an embedded developer, having access to tools that I otherwise could not afford is a great perk at my job. Knowledge of how to use them could only come from a university, a company or falling into a large sum of money. Granted the bureaucratic office politics exists, but I feel it's not as bad as it could be. I have the freedom to solve problems using the tools I desire. We use Linux for our micro operating system, so I'm gaining valuable command line skills and script-fu. My only complaint is my current salary. But the freedom and encouragement to continue learning is worth more to me than the money anyway.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#34

Post by tomrod » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 5:20 PM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #32

As with other comments, I agree the tone is self-defeating. When did we forget the difference between problems and conditions? Problems are things with solutions within our power. Conditions are things without solutions within our power. I feel the author could benefit greatly by learning how to determine what could be solved with one's own effort--and an employer stealing life away is solvable, IMHO, in numerous way…

Also, this piece could be an argument for automation. If the employer is stealing your life, would you not be happier having a machine do your job, giving you the freedom to live your life?

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#35

Post by pygy_ » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 5:24 PM UTC

lionhearted wrote: post #3

> On the other hand - or so they say - you're free, and if you don't like your job you can pursue happiness by starting a business of your very own, by becoming an "independent" entrepreneur. But you're only as independent as your credit rating. And to compete in the business community, you'll find yourself having to treat others - your employees - as much like slaves as you can get away with. The whole piece is like…

You're attacking the messenger, but you fail to address his core argument which boils down to Marx's criticism of capitalism (the fact that workers don't own the production means is unfair).

"Just start your business" as a mean to all ends doesn't scale. Your last paragraph also seems to ignore that, for some people, just getting by takes (sometimes a lot of) effort. You may be clueless at some key point in your life, make a bad decision and get caught in inextricable situations.

The difference between left- and right-wing views on economy boil down IMO to ethics. Both sides agree on the fact that the world is unfair, but they differ on how to address the problem.

From the extremes, the left promotes forced altruism, which has historically been proven not to work so well; whereas the right promotes egoism (relying Adam Smith's Noodly Appendage to shelter itself from remorse), which, with the ever growing rift between the very rich and the rest of the world is currently coming to its own absurd conclusion.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#36

Post by moultano » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 5:27 PM UTC

lionhearted wrote: post #3

> On the other hand - or so they say - you're free, and if you don't like your job you can pursue happiness by starting a business of your very own, by becoming an "independent" entrepreneur. But you're only as independent as your credit rating. And to compete in the business community, you'll find yourself having to treat others - your employees - as much like slaves as you can get away with. The whole piece is like…

I don't think you're giving this enough thought.

Some traits are an emergent property of systems, and while it's technically correct to say that this is blaming "other people," it's not a useful idea. It's like getting mad that someone lied to you, and blaming their neurons.

The system we're in has some undesirable traits, and it's useful to think about them and how they might be fixed.

Unless you're suggesting that every person on earth should be an entrepreneur to be happy, I think it's worth thinking about how to make the rest of the opportunities more hospitable to a happy life.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#37

Post by rick888 » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 5:28 PM UTC

rwl wrote: post #26

The upshot of this piece is much more significant than the comments here have been willing to admit. Yes, you can write the author off as having a whiny, blame-others attitude. Yes, you can say that if he would just take matters into his own hands, the path of entrepreneurship is hard but ultimately rewarding. And maybe that's right. But if you say that, then you have already accepted a premise that the piece is call…

"But if you say that, then you have already accepted a premise that the piece is calling into question, namely: why should that be the choice that everyone faces?"

Do you have an alternative? Humans have tried many different methods over many thousands of years and our current system is the result of trying and failing many, many times. It's the most fair and allows pretty much anyone to be successful.

Life is difficult because we have more freedoms. We don't have someone making all of the decisions for us (which might be easier), but the result is more choice. If you don't make the right choices, you could end up living on the street or in poverty. Buy you could also end up with lots of money and a nice life.

I suppose an alternative would be no choice. You are forced to work for the government.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#38

Post by lionhearted » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 5:35 PM UTC

moultano wrote: post #36

lionhearted wrote: post #3

> On the other hand - or so they say - you're free, and if you don't like your job you can pursue happiness by starting a business of your very own, by becoming an "independent" entrepreneur. But you're only as independent as your credit rating. And to compete in the business community, you'll find yourself having to treat others - your employees - as much like slaves as you can get away with. The whole piece is like…

I don't think you're giving this enough thought. Some traits are an emergent property of systems, and while it's technically correct to say that this is blaming "other people," it's not a useful idea. It's like getting mad that someone lied to you, and blaming their neurons. The system we're in has some undesirable traits, and it's useful to think about them and how they might be fixed. Unless you're suggesting that…

> Some traits are an emergent property of systems, and while it's technically correct to say that this is blaming "other people," it's not a useful idea.

This is exactly blaming other people, from the article -

> It was during the years of office work that I caught on: I got two weeks' paid vacation per year. ... In other words, no time was truly mine. My boss merely allowed me an illusion of freedom, a little space in which to catch my breath, in between the 50 weeks that I lived that he owned.

There's many ways to work full-time less than 50 weeks out of the year. Instead, the author chooses to point the blame outwards.

The whole article is heavy on that external blame. It's bad, it closes your mind off to many, many possible solutions. There's definitely lots of problems with working full time for just a paycheck, but it's unhelpful to people to wrap that in such a defeatist externally-blaming way. That kills your mind off to finding solutions.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#39

Post by watchandwait » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 5:38 PM UTC

The real theft is that the federal, state, and local governments take about 40 percent of your earnings in an array of taxes.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#40

Post by georgieporgie » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 5:41 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #14

Prime quote from the other side, "Someone is Stealing My Money": "I pay you to work 8 hours and you're on Hacker News for 6 of them. Close that browser and get back to work."

I've never understood how wasting time on the job can possibly be termed 'theft'. It's irresponsible and a failure to fulfill expectations, but it's not theft.

(btw, I also don't see employers as stealing life from employees)