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Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

appleinsider.com

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Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#31

Post by jmnicolas »

ttul wrote: post #28
thought_alarm wrote: post #19

Always a year away. I remain deeply sceptical that Apple will move the Mac to ARM, and given their bungling of the MacBook lineup over the last 5 years I have doubts they understand what their users need from a laptop. I don't think they could pull it off without a great deal of pain for their users and developers. I don't think their OS engineers need the burden.

They’ll do it on a select model or two. By passing on some of the cost savings to purchasers, they will drag the market along with them as they gradually replace Intel. I would guess that they target the MacBook Air first, because there are likely large power-performance benefits in that form factor. They will build multiple processor targeting into the default build process in Xcode and will invest a great deal of e…

> By passing on some of the cost savings to purchasers

We're talking about Apple here. I expect the new machines to have less perf but be as expensive as before.

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#32

Post by _ph_ »

I am torn, whenever I hear the rumors about the ARM Macs. On the one side, I am terribly excited from a technology perspective. I grew up with homecomputers in the 80ies, and in the 90ies, all Unix-workstations had several different, non-x86 architectures. So any disruption of the x86-monoculture is interesting. Also, looking at the performance of the iPhone and iPad, I think Apple has the potential to create some great hardware. It would also give them more flexibility to roll out new features.

On the other side, such a transition always is painfull. A lot of software needs to be rebuilt, and even more legacy software gets killed, as it is not ported to the new platform. Though Catalina already did a lot of that, and that might not be a coincidence, if you think about it. Catalina might be intentionally restrictive to ease the transition to another architecture.

Also, a lot of Mac users are running VMs on their machines. Running Windows and Linux VMs on your Mac was one big benefit of the switch to Intel. I myself use a Linux VM for my professional work on a MB Pro. And that VM needs to be able to run x86 software. So it remains to be seen, how Apple deals with the MB Pro (and of course the Mac Pro).

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#34

Post by [deleted] »

thought_alarm wrote: post #19

Always a year away. I remain deeply sceptical that Apple will move the Mac to ARM, and given their bungling of the MacBook lineup over the last 5 years I have doubts they understand what their users need from a laptop. I don't think they could pull it off without a great deal of pain for their users and developers. I don't think their OS engineers need the burden.

[deleted]

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#35

Post by chongli »

thought_alarm wrote: post #19

Always a year away. I remain deeply sceptical that Apple will move the Mac to ARM, and given their bungling of the MacBook lineup over the last 5 years I have doubts they understand what their users need from a laptop. I don't think they could pull it off without a great deal of pain for their users and developers. I don't think their OS engineers need the burden.

given their bungling of the MacBook lineup over the last 5 years

Wouldn't this stand as a reason to not be skeptical of the big move? Switching to ARM (badly) and breaking everything seems like it'd be exactly in line with all of this bungling.

I ordered a new MacBook Air just over a week ago, right when it was announced. If it turns out to be the last Intel-based MBA before years of pain and suffering with the ARM transition then I expect to be hanging on to it for a long time.

Having said all that, Apple is well known for having successfully navigated multiple CPU architecture transitions over the life of their operating system (s). If anyone can do it again successfully, I would expect Apple to do so.

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#36

Post by dylan604 »

unlinked_dll wrote: post #23
raverbashing wrote: post #7

Still to be confirmed, I don't usually take "analyst predictions" too seriously but I found this interesting: "Apple will no longer be held to the whims of Intel" Apple switched to Intel because IBM couldn't ship a good enough G5 for notebooks and for scale issues. Given that Intel is not on track with 7nm and rumours of their CEO being seen in Taiwan the other day it seems history is repeating itself.

I mean if it's just about performance, why switch architectures instead of using AMD chips?

If it's time to make another CPU change, why not switch it to one that you control completely? Motorola->PPC->Intel->Apple. It just makes sense that's where they'd ultimately want to go.

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#37

Post by crazygringo »

thought_alarm wrote: post #19

Always a year away. I remain deeply sceptical that Apple will move the Mac to ARM, and given their bungling of the MacBook lineup over the last 5 years I have doubts they understand what their users need from a laptop. I don't think they could pull it off without a great deal of pain for their users and developers. I don't think their OS engineers need the burden.

> I have doubts they understand what their users need from a laptop

Better battery life and less heat, no? Isn't that the point of ARM?

They've done processor transitions multiple times before.

And whatever "bungling" you're talking about, I don't see what that has to do with it. It's not like people have stopped buying MacBooks and Apple has serious remedial stuff to work on first. Besides, whether or not your MacBook has a touchbar or whatever its key travel is has literally nothing to do with what it's doing with processors.

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#38

Post by flippydidoodada »

thought_alarm wrote: post #19

Always a year away. I remain deeply sceptical that Apple will move the Mac to ARM, and given their bungling of the MacBook lineup over the last 5 years I have doubts they understand what their users need from a laptop. I don't think they could pull it off without a great deal of pain for their users and developers. I don't think their OS engineers need the burden.

Kou wouldn't be able to use data from the supply chain to know what software is running on future hardware. If Apple is releasing ARM based desktops its more likely they'll be iOS derived devices to meet new niches. Something that competes with the large Wacoms would need to be more easel like than the current iMacs.

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#39

Post by oefrha »

thought_alarm wrote: post #19

Always a year away. I remain deeply sceptical that Apple will move the Mac to ARM, and given their bungling of the MacBook lineup over the last 5 years I have doubts they understand what their users need from a laptop. I don't think they could pull it off without a great deal of pain for their users and developers. I don't think their OS engineers need the burden.

> Always a year away.

Citation needed. We’re not talking about Year of the Linux Desktop here.

I’ve been hearing rumblings and speculations about ARM Macs since at least five years ago, but IFAICR never heard a concrete timeline attached to it, let alone “a year away”. And 2021 would be fairly consistent with speculations.

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#40

Post by mikhailt »

jshaqaw wrote: post #8

The question is as users should we care? If this is cheaper for Apple will they actually lower product prices or just enhance their own margins. Will this result in any superior performance on a cost-adjusted basis?

Of course, we should care. We are talking about losing the standard x86 platform support (which allows for Windows/Linux support if not total OOB support) to a custom Apple platform that may be more locked down to the point that Linux may not even care to add any support for it (T2-Macs have been difficult to add support in Linux). This drops the value a lot if you're not an exclusive macOS user.

1. We don't know what impact this will have for Bootcamp and Windows, since Windows 10 on ARM right now is customized for specific ARM CPUs like Snapdragon.

2. Same for virtualization, we don't know the performance hit it is going to have. A lot of people still need to use Windows for specific software that is not available on Windows or macOS where 32-bit support can be retained with older macOS releases.

3. Going the other direction, ARM means we could also see easier porting of iOS apps to macOS via Catalyst with more consistent APIs. But that could also mean less focus on macOS overall and everyone switching to iOS to port to macOS rather than working on two separate versions. This has both pros and cons and we won't know the full extent until a few years later.

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