Live data from Hacker News

Making software engineering interviews predictive of job performance

qualified.io

31–40 of 113 posts

Re: Making software engineering interviews predictive of job performance

#31

Some of the points here are good, but I think some of them are too simplistic. This article makes a huge assumption: that performance is the only factor you're hiring for, and therefore unstructured interviews are worthless. That would make sense if you're interviewing for a factory of emotionless robots. But humans are social beings, and human performance as a team is more complicated than a sum of individual produc…

>> What kind of person works for free anyway?

I would expect everyone at some point has done something (worked) for free, either on speculation, as a favor, or for bragging rights. Open source wouldn't be a thing otherwise.

Re: Making software engineering interviews predictive of job performance

#32
post #25

I think the important thing is to realize that you need to rely on realistic factors and many different signals to get useful data. I've been to plenty of interviews for "senior software engineers," where they used the standard gauntlet of algorithms/problem solving/data structures questions in rapid succession for eight hours. I tend to deliver most of my projects on time and of a high quality. I value things such a…

What does your interview process look like?

It's not perfect either but we're pretty open about it: https://weeverapps.github.io/interviews/

Internally we use a rubric for the various job roles we hire for and we aim to remove or counter biases at every step of the process. Our teams value diversity and are pro-active about equality and inclusion.

A big part of the process is code review, something our engineers actually do spend a lot of time doing, so the process is mostly focused around that.

Re: Making software engineering interviews predictive of job performance

#33
post #4

In the end, it's a crap shoot... Even their highest marker of validity is only about 50%. In the end, if you make it too hard in an employee market, you will have good to great candidates drop off... if you make it too easy, you will wind up at the bottom of the barrel. Market pay will also vary wildly and dramatically, and perception is equally varied. Where I work now, we have a small pre-interview code challenge..…

> In the end, if you make it too hard in an employee market, you will have good to great candidates drop off... if you make it too easy, you will wind up at the bottom of the barrel. Market pay will also vary wildly and dramatically, and perception is equally varied.

I mean, you're talking about a different thing than "job performance" here.

Job performance is a satisficing measure: you only need to get someone who's good enough to perform the duties you need of them. (Yes, even in software engineering.)

You're talking about ranking measures. Does it matter if someone is "the best" if they're still not good enough to do your job? Does it matter if someone is "the bottom of the barrel" if they are good enough to do your job? I would say no, in both cases.

IMHO, the hiring bar is way too high in most bigcorps; they care about vanity metrics about having "the best", when 100% of the work assigned to these hires could be easily done by people who are not, in fact, "the best."

The point of a job interview, in the abstract, is to filter out the candidates who aren't qualified to perform the job duties even after a few weeks of on-the-job training. This leaves you with a pool of people who are all qualified. At that point, you should either just hire one of them at random, or try to optimize for a second criterion, such as "is willing to take the lowest compensation to do the job" (which usually translates to "has the fewest formal qualifications to do the job, while still actually being qualified in practice.")

Re: Making software engineering interviews predictive of job performance

#34

“General Mental Ability (GMA) tests (like the IQ test) are very predictive of future job performance, largely because people with high intelligence can learn the skills needed to be successful on the job more rapidly. However, due to legal concerns they’re not recommended for companies hiring in the US.” This is what a classic FAANG interview is: an IQ test which is disguised as a relevant skills test for legal reaso…

you can pass every facebook iterview by practicing facebook tagged questions on leetcode. People do that every single day, here is an example from today

https://leetcode.com/discuss/interview-question/551434/faceb...

Its NOT related to IQ.

You can search leetcode forum for tons of examples of actual FB questions, all of them are tagged on leetcode.

Re: Making software engineering interviews predictive of job performance

#35
post #29

“General Mental Ability (GMA) tests (like the IQ test) are very predictive of future job performance, largely because people with high intelligence can learn the skills needed to be successful on the job more rapidly. However, due to legal concerns they’re not recommended for companies hiring in the US.” This is what a classic FAANG interview is: an IQ test which is disguised as a relevant skills test for legal reaso…

FAANG coding interviews are definitely not IQ tests. IQ tests (for interviewing) are typically spatial comparisons, some math, logic puzzles, reading comprehension, and pattern recognition and are done so under a time budget of around 30s to 1 minute per question FAANG coding requires CS basics - hashmaps, arrays, sorting strategies, trees, recusion, basic ops for all of the data structures, and a few other concepts.…

That's why the parent said that they're "disguised" IQ tests.

If they used a test that strongly correlated with the outcome of an IQ test, then it would also, legally, be an IQ test, and they'd have to stop doing it.

So instead, they use a test that weakly correlates with the outcome of an IQ test, and then try to extract the a measure of IQ from the "noise" that is all the other variables the test depends on.

Re: Making software engineering interviews predictive of job performance

#36
post #35
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FAANG coding interviews are definitely not IQ tests. IQ tests (for interviewing) are typically spatial comparisons, some math, logic puzzles, reading comprehension, and pattern recognition and are done so under a time budget of around 30s to 1 minute per question FAANG coding requires CS basics - hashmaps, arrays, sorting strategies, trees, recusion, basic ops for all of the data structures, and a few other concepts.…

That's why the parent said that they're "disguised" IQ tests. If they used a test that strongly correlated with the outcome of an IQ test, then it would also , legally, be an IQ test, and they'd have to stop doing it. So instead, they use a test that weakly correlates with the outcome of an IQ test, and then try to extract the a measure of IQ from the "noise" that is all the other variables the test depends on.

IQ has nothing to do with whether you know CS basics or not, that's the problem. It doesn't matter that they said it's a disguised IQ test because it's not an IQ test in any fashion.

Re: Making software engineering interviews predictive of job performance

#37
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just give an actual IQ test?

That opens you up to liability for race-based discrimination. The accepted wisdom is that IQ tests are inherently racist and favor white evaluees over black and brown ones.

[deleted]

Re: Making software engineering interviews predictive of job performance

#38

Some of the points here are good, but I think some of them are too simplistic. This article makes a huge assumption: that performance is the only factor you're hiring for, and therefore unstructured interviews are worthless. That would make sense if you're interviewing for a factory of emotionless robots. But humans are social beings, and human performance as a team is more complicated than a sum of individual produc…

>> What kind of person works for free anyway? I would expect everyone at some point has done something (worked) for free, either on speculation, as a favor, or for bragging rights. Open source wouldn't be a thing otherwise.

Most work being done on significant open source projects is by people who are being paid for that work.

Re: Making software engineering interviews predictive of job performance

#39
I don't think you can. Job performance is something that gets figured out on the fly.

Unless you're working in a crazy standardized operation thats a moving target.

e.g. We've got a ton of manager & they all sorta do their own thing...they gravitate towards their strong suit essentially. You can't really test for that in advance.

Some people excel at leading 30 man teams on stable jobs. Others excel at being parachuted into technical shitshows and sorting it out. Very different personal attributes.

It's a crap shoot as tracker1 says and will continue to be one

Re: Making software engineering interviews predictive of job performance

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just give an actual IQ test?

Not allowed by law.

> IQ tests (for interviewing) are typically spatial comparisons, some math, logic puzzles, reading comprehension, and pattern recognition

I definitely got these in tech interviews. Thoughtworks gave me one last year.

Post reply on HN