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Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

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Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#31

Post by DoreenMichele »

dmd149 wrote: post #23

The article acknowledges that tax rates are significantly higher in Sweden in order to pay for these benefits. Has anyone modeled typical take home income (after taxes) over a lifetime vs the costs of procuring similar parental services in each country (daycare for example)? My hypothesis would be that in the US, you’d probably still come out ahead in net income even after paying for these services. Could be wrong of…

Some study indicated American parents are extremely stressed out in comparison to most parents in most developed countries and are less happy overall because of it.

I'm not sure I could find the study again. It was posted on Metafilter some years ago. I'm banned from Metafilter and have zero plans to spend my time trying to dig through Metafilter to find it.

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#32

Post by rootusrootus »

kasperni wrote: post #27
dmd149 wrote: post #23

The article acknowledges that tax rates are significantly higher in Sweden in order to pay for these benefits. Has anyone modeled typical take home income (after taxes) over a lifetime vs the costs of procuring similar parental services in each country (daycare for example)? My hypothesis would be that in the US, you’d probably still come out ahead in net income even after paying for these services. Could be wrong of…

If healthcare is any indicator I wouldn't be so sure. The US is consistently ranked at the bottom of most-efficient healthcare systems. You guys pay so much more per capita then any other nation on the planet [1]. So your taxes might be lower, but you still need to spend the money via other channels. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...

Yeah we basically subsidize a huge amount of healthcare technology that gets deployed far cheaper in other places. I wish we'd stop.

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#34

Post by Swizec »

dmd149 wrote: post #23

The article acknowledges that tax rates are significantly higher in Sweden in order to pay for these benefits. Has anyone modeled typical take home income (after taxes) over a lifetime vs the costs of procuring similar parental services in each country (daycare for example)? My hypothesis would be that in the US, you’d probably still come out ahead in net income even after paying for these services. Could be wrong of…

I come from Europe and moved to USA. After taxes and everything I get for my taxes back home, USA and EU are roughly the same in “things you have to pay for to have a normal life”

Except in Europe I’m not scared of getting sick.

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#35

Post by dmd149 »

Swizec wrote: post #34
dmd149 wrote: post #23

The article acknowledges that tax rates are significantly higher in Sweden in order to pay for these benefits. Has anyone modeled typical take home income (after taxes) over a lifetime vs the costs of procuring similar parental services in each country (daycare for example)? My hypothesis would be that in the US, you’d probably still come out ahead in net income even after paying for these services. Could be wrong of…

I come from Europe and moved to USA. After taxes and everything I get for my taxes back home, USA and EU are roughly the same in “things you have to pay for to have a normal life” Except in Europe I’m not scared of getting sick.

If it’s the same then...it’s the same. One is not better than the other.

What country in Europe are you coming from and what makes you afraid of getting sick in the US?

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#36

Post by IAmEveryone »

martin_bech wrote: post #6

As a Scandinavian, the US seems like a third world country. I am genuinely sad for you.

It’s really both... it does Trump, like no other self-respecting country would. But it also had Obama, who would arguably had had a more difficult time in Europe.

And that goes through everything: people dying from deceases of despair, yet medical research is still top of the field.

Obese people on these scooters everywhere, but also a far larger number of people that are incredibly fit.

A fast food culture that as hedonistic and short-sighted as a late Roman dictator, but also the most elaborate selection of fresh organic vegetables I’ve ever seen in supermarkets.

A tradition of values-based jurisprudence that is far ahead of anything Europe has, but suddenly deciding to try corruption for a bit—and then dominating that particular field again in no time flat.

It’s really quite impressive. I’m somewhat certain it causes Americans more pain than it is worth. But I’m not quite as firm on judging if the rest of the world isn’t sometimes getting a pretty good deal out it.

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#37

Post by quietthrow »

dmd149 wrote: post #28
OzzyB wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy to accept your hypothesis that US citizens will come out on top for lifetime net income, but this article was about the human costs, like having children or not. What cost is forgoing having a family? Is that even calculated? My hypothesis is that it's not and all those people that simply weren't able to have a child because of work and healthcare costs are simply, and conveniently, ignored. It's ok though,…

The example was about the human costs sure, but very much closely tied to things related to income (job security, costs of child care, etc.). But let’s keep it to the family. Say between the age of 25 and 35 an American will be able to take home an extra 10k per year compared to a Swede. 100k an extra savings goes a long way to being able to take care of a new child or start a family. Not saying my hypothetical is ac…

It’s thinking like yours on the “uneducated” politicians part that leads to polices like the US has today. Income and money are not everything. But alas, untraveled and relatively speaking closed minded citizenry sees their way as righteous as they are honest and hard working people. It’s a pretty bad side effect of being honest, law abiding and hardworking that you feel your way is the right way and perhaps even justified because of ones struggles. It’s a cycle the promotes more of the same - status quo.

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#38

Post by dmd149 »

quietthrow wrote: post #37
dmd149 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The example was about the human costs sure, but very much closely tied to things related to income (job security, costs of child care, etc.). But let’s keep it to the family. Say between the age of 25 and 35 an American will be able to take home an extra 10k per year compared to a Swede. 100k an extra savings goes a long way to being able to take care of a new child or start a family. Not saying my hypothetical is ac…

It’s thinking like yours on the “uneducated” politicians part that leads to polices like the US has today. Income and money are not everything. But alas, untraveled and relatively speaking closed minded citizenry sees their way as righteous as they are honest and hard working people. It’s a pretty bad side effect of being honest, law abiding and hardworking that you feel your way is the right way and perhaps even jus…

I have no idea what you’re trying to say.

Sounds like:

- Americans are uneducated and under-traveled - There are other values other than money - I think my opinions are correct and Americans are deluding themselves

Is that correct?

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#39

Post by Swizec »

dmd149 wrote: post #35
Swizec wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I come from Europe and moved to USA. After taxes and everything I get for my taxes back home, USA and EU are roughly the same in “things you have to pay for to have a normal life” Except in Europe I’m not scared of getting sick.

If it’s the same then...it’s the same. One is not better than the other. What country in Europe are you coming from and what makes you afraid of getting sick in the US?

The problem in USA is spiky unexpected cost of health care. Even with good insurance you never know when a random huge bill might come. Best avoid doctors unless you’re literally dying

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#40

Post by lotsofpulp »

vidarh wrote: post #3
jdmoreira wrote: post #2

I'm a dad in Stockholm and currently in the first month of my parental leave which is expected to last at least more 6 months. My girlfriend just went back to work. Our daughter is 11 months old. I worked 75% from the time she was 6 months old until a month ago when I went for a 100% parental. My employer pays me a bonus on top of the state money as a perk. As far as I am concerned I can’t even imagine it being any o…

I'm Norwegian, and the Norwegian system is similar to the Swedish. I live in the UK, though, and so I've seen how expensive and inflexible UK policy, which is much closer to US is Vs. for my brother in Norway. I don't understand how people on more normal incomes do it in places like the UK and US.

> I don't understand how people on more normal incomes do it in places like the UK and US.

They simply have a worse quality of life. Hand the baby off to older family members or daycare and spend 50 hours or more per week at work or commuting to work, and spend maybe 3 to 4 hours a day if that with their infant, with which they still need to cook, clean, excercise, etc.

And looking around at many people, clearly they’re sacrificing many of those life enhancing activities in exchange for a little bit of financial security and the hope they or their kids can make it out of the bottom 90%, so that maybe they can spend some time with their babies.

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